Kitchen Garden Forum

It is an interesting read Barney. Not sure how balanced it is. Talk of factions etc I find off-putting. An organisation that sells peat products aren't going to encourage people to go peat-free are they really? I know that's a bit cynical but they are a business selling a product which they conveniently advertise at the bottom of the screen.

Richward

You are quite correct Richard when you write that they are a business selling a proroduct, however, their claims can be challenged if misleading. There are laws controlling what a seller claims about their products, no such laws control what unelected pressure groups can claim.

Barney

John Walker,
With every posting of yours it becomes more apparent to me, and no doubt to a lot of other forum contributors, that you seem to be unable to use your own words. Your posting advising us to read the Telegraph article was actually mainly filched from that article.
Why is it that you feel the need to be propped up by the writings of others?
JB.

Hi Barney,
I thank you whole heatedly for bringing to my notice the Glendoick Nursery/Peat website.
It is like a breath of fresh air to read a website so full of common sense.
For those who haven't bothered to read it, please take the time because it is infinite common sense. A vast change to the ban this and ban that brigades nonsense!
JB.

Well, that puts my mind at rest, Alan - I no longer feel guilty in continuing to use peat-based compost!

@Monica

Well, that puts my mind at rest, Alan - I no longer feel guilty in continuing to use peat-based compost!

I'm interested in why you should actually feel guilty about using peat. Surely your choice would be better made based on the known facts about the ecologically damaging processes involved in putting peat into a compost bag?

Did you feel less guilty when you saw this headline because it made you feel that global peat use is so apparently small that it's not worth bothering about? It's important to realise that the headline refers to world peat reserves, not remaining UK reserves (it's also interesting to note that this headline was written by someone who doesn't think there's any problem, despite the evidence, in continuing to use peat).

In the UK only 1% (RSPB figures) of our lowland raised bogs remain in pristine condition, and are threatened by continued peat extraction. Does bringing the problem closer to home reinstate your sense of concern/guilt?

How are you (or other forum members) going to feel if one day it's announced that through continuous peat extraction, there are no pristine lowland peat bogs left in the UK?

The closing date for the government's peat consultation is Friday 11th March, 2011. All submissions must be in by then.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consu ... /index.htm

This is a much-viewed thread and I'm interested to know how many forum members are planning to or have already responded? Please PM me if you prefer.

Monika wrote:Well, that puts my mind at rest, Alan - I no longer feel guilty in continuing to use peat-based compost!

Hi Monika

I didn't think he'd let you stay guilt-free for long

Roll on 11 March when this consultation ends.

Sorry to have got your spirits up.

Alan

Don't worry, Alan, I have a thick skin, like a rhinoceros according to my OH.

And, John, I have given my opinion on peat-free compost etc before on this forum and stand by it.

Have a good weekend everybody!

alan refail wrote:A further thought:

Reducing the horticultural use of peat in England

Will peat continue in use in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland?

Posted 29 December 2010 - at last an answer:

http://www.hortweek.com/resources/BigIs ... le-England

Despite soils policy specialist Judith Stuart previously saying she expected the devolved administrations to follow suit (HW, 11 February), a Defra representative has confirmed that the proposals only apply to England.

The representative advised: "Soil and peat are devolved policy issues and our consultation proposals apply to England only.

"However, Defra will continue to work closely with devolved administrations on all peat policy issues, including a reduction in the horticultural use of peat."

North of the border, a discussion paper has been launched into reducing the horticultural use of peat. A Scottish government representative said: "We believe that there is a case for phasing out the use of peat in horticulture but are still considering how this could be done."

The Welsh Assembly Government plans to reduce peat usage across horticulture, heating and electricity generation but is not currently considering a complete phase-out like planned by Defra.

A representative said: "Peat extraction for use in the horticultural industry is not actually significant in Wales because we have few lowland raised bogs or fens and those that do exist are predominantly under environmental or conservation protection."

There are currently no plans in Northern Ireland to reduce or phase out the horticultural use of peat. A Northern Ireland Assembly representative said: "There is no equivalent move in Northern Ireland on similar targets, although we have been trying to reduce the use of peat in government estates over the past few years.

"The problem, as always, is the matter of costs involved in moving to something that is more sustainable but less efficient or more expensive - there is also a degree of economic benefit for a few commercial peat extraction companies."

I thought I would take the time tonight to read the posts, it seems that the folk that produce the scientific evidence are polite, they are often home growers, and lime me have no real issue with westland peat free or b&q and wont buy peat on priniciple, it is not sustainable that fact is unequivocable.

I would be interested to know in comparison to other global warming activities what peat farming actually releases into the atmosphere carbon or methane wise compared to say the equivalent number of trucks per average 500 mile motorway journey, I suppose if it is a minor offender in global warming terms, we then need to be concerned with the prettyness factor, how it is or is not scarring our landscape

Its a bit like windfarms, i think they look great in the right spot, and to a certain degree the lakes and marshes on the levels formed by peat excavation are good, but would argue we dont need any more.

We are constantly changing the environment, it is man's nature, we cannot live here without changing it. It is debatable whether we can sustain it or not. After reading the scientific views, I can only find arrogant arguments to support horticultural peat use that say. 'It is cheap and good quality therefore I will not use anything else' Some of the insults that those with scientific background have suffered in the last six pages are frankly rude; When I inadvertantly joined the rekindled debate on another page, I had not realised how poor and naive some of the comments on here are, but then I have read similar in the past on other subjects.

There is away of gently putting one's points and not so gently. I know which makes better reading

I respectfully submit my case.

ive also read this thread in its entirity..... wonder ihow its possible for my puter to produce different pages to compo's.... perhaps hes on windows and explorer and im on linux and seamonkey

just a fewf things are bugging me at the moment

if we use 75k cu metres of peat..anually.. roughly 75 k tonnes..... how can it release 400k tonnes of co2 anually...... perhaps someone could explain this for this simple somerset country bumpkin

the argument appears to be there is only !% of untouched peat bog left, banning peat extraction from the somerset levels will preserve this. however the somerset levels arnt untouched peat bogs theyve been drained for centuries and the peat is extracted from land that has been pasture for decades, if not centuries.

if peat takes so long to form it is viewed as unrenewable why are defra trying to establish peat bogs?

if peat is extracted from grassland and the peatworkings are then turned into a nature reserve with increased biodiversity.... bear in mind the reintroduction of bitterns, cranes etc to the nature reserves on the old peat workings on the levels in recent years and ongoing... why is this bad ? theres vast areas of grassland so the loss of a tiny bit of that is insignificant..

perhaps someone would be kind enough to reoslve these niggles for me.

Hi Richard

I doubt you'll be any more successful in getting answers than I was with the RSPB

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9419

It's always dangerous to question the converted of any religion.

I've not read all the previous thoughts etc - it is a bit long, and people seem to have fixed opinions either for or against.

I must say I feel a little guilty using peat when I hear about all the habitat devastation and release of Co2, but most gardeners know that peat based composts give the best results with their nice light texture and moisture retention, so as long as the shops are supplying it, people will keep buying it. If they want us to stop using it they will have to sell us something else and not stock peat based composts at all.

I know I've omitted all the statistics quoted to say peat extraction doesn't do any particular harm, but most people really don't care either way and will use whatever they get the best results with. So if they stop supplying peat based compost people will use the alternatives that give the best results. I've tried quite a few and found a lot of them either too coarse, smelling like sewage, containing stones or plastic or difficult to regulate how wet they are.

If I found a good alternative to peat I would use it.