Kitchen Garden Forum

Don't know but they haven't been mentioned.

Maybe you could check with the two companies where they source materials - can't think of any other way of getting information. They would probably be interested to be made aware of the problem if they aren't already.

We had over 400 hits on our web page yesterday and already over 150 this morning.

Some came from other forums so I have popped in and joined a few threads. It would appear that a few groups have been ferretting around thinking that they were the only ones as well. They have also been given the runaround by the gov!

Almost 600 visits today so far.

A disturbing development is the number of people commenting on their suspicions that bagged manure from well known suppliers may be causing problem! Apparently different suppliers also use the same source supplier and then brand the bags.

Some of our potatoes are growing out of the problem so I emailed the RHS asking if they would be fit to eat. I had this response.
"The residue levels will decline in time, though this process is slower in plant tissue than in the soil. Delaying harvesting from affected plants until 2009 is a sensible precaution. For annual crops such as potato, it is best not to recommend consumption.

The issue of testing is flawed. Even cases of known contamination have failed to be confirmed by laboratory testing simply because the residue levels are too low to be detected".

It leads me to another question. If the potatoes look OK - how can we know that shop bought produce hasn't been affected by this problem? Makes you wonder about the story that last year's potato crops were poor because of bad weather too. Or is that being completely paranoid?

Hello everyone, thought I'd register here as glallotments is doing sterling work to publicise this problem.

Just to let you all know that I'm affected by this problem having bought several bags of an 'Organic' compost. All my tomatoes show the classic symptoms, my potatoes & beans are similar. I also know of another person who has bought a different brand that is available nationally (but made by the same company as mine). So far it doesn't seem to be many people affected but I just wonder how many people are able to identify what has caused their veg failure this year?

There are so many variables in growing veg that people are more likely to blame the weather, under/over watering, under/over fertilizing plus the 'normal' pests and diseases than weedkiller in their compost.

Maybe it's not such an important issue if it's just me and a couple of others that have suffered using bagged compost.

However I suspect that there are many others who have not recognised the symptoms.

John,
I know of at least three other people who have used bagged compost.

Two were bagged under different names but further investigation proved that the companies received supplie from the same supplier and just rebadged. Another was from a wel known company freely available on the high street. So you are not alone

I've just rung our local trading standards who were unaware that we had this national problem so maybe others need to do the same.

glallotments wrote:Some of our potatoes are growing out of the problem ...

Yes my potatoes look to be recovering, I used 50% my own compost mixed with 50% contaminated compost so that might have diluted the weedkiller affect. I dug up a couple of roots at the weekend and the tubers look OK and quite a good size and number, pity the advice is not to eat them

JK : I hope you have contacted the manure supplier and told them about your suspicions. I think you should also publicise which products you suspect are contaminated. They can't prosecute for a suspicion and it might spur them into action.
GLAllotments : Has anybody said if there is a simple test for aminopyralid residues? Without firm evidence Dow are going to hide behind "unproven, could be all sorts of things".
Following this thread it is difficult to believe this chemical was ever licensed. I am not anti-chemical but this stuff seems incredibly persistent and must be in the food chain unless cattle digestion is unbelievably efficient at excreting it all! Good job the hill farmers round here aren't sophisticated enough to use it.

Apparently no simple test I'm afraid

if the produce grown using the affected manure isnt safe to eat , how can they claim the treated grass was fit for cattle to eat in the first place??
or is it a case that the average lifespan of a dairy cow is about 4 years and beef cattle less than 2 so they dont live long enough for cancers etc to develope?

Hi Geoff,

Your quote;
Following this thread it is difficult to believe this chemical was ever licensed.

I agree wholeheartedly with your comment.
I feel that the advice given not to eat any produce is to protect the chemical company should somebody attempt a law suit against them.
It would be nice to know who actually issued the licence and to find out what trials were made prior to the granting of the licence. Knowing the way the British government departments have acted in all this the words freeze, Hell and over come to mind.

Richard,
Dairy cattle are considerably older than 4 years when they are slaughtered and I believe that Beef restrictions on slaughter is now 45 months.
I still agree with what you have said though.
The RHS seem to think that aminopyralid is quite innocuous but I am not satisfied with THINK as an answer.

I feel that if we can keep this going, and I pay
tribute to Glaolloments (Sue) for her sterling efforts so far, we stand a very good chance of getting these substances withdrawn.

One test that could be made is a simple Cress Trial.
This is to take several samples from different depths of soil mix together and sow cress over the top. If I have used Glyphosate to clear nettles or thistles I wait 6 weeks then sow some cress prior to reseeding pasture. The cress will germinate almost overnight. If it survives then I reseed. In the case of this trial you would have to note that the cress is growing properly. If you are unsure how cress grows make a trial using MP compost prior to making the test using the contaminated soil.
JB.

Geoff: yes I have contacted the compost manufacturer, who said the product is made using hay mainly sourced from MoD contracts. I guess that the MoD needs to keep weeds down on lots of pathways and amenity areas on its land, so they probably use this selective weedkiller. I had never realised that commercial compost was made from grass products as I thought it was too expensive and only used for animal feed.

The product is sold & labelled as "Natural Organic Compost" and "Ideal for preparing your soil for planting of trees, shrubs, vegetables, bedding plants, bulbs. This 100% organic compost is weed free ...". I will pm you (and anyone else who wants to know the make) and to be fair to them they had no idea there was a problem until I complained, and have promised to put safeguards in place. They do make several brands as well as a local to Surrey product with free delivery: i.e. natural organic compost free delivery surrey

Even though your local farmers might not be using this weedkiller you still might be affected when you go into your local garden centre and buy a bag of compost, how are we supposed to know where it was sourced from and what's in it. I was foolish enough to believe that "Organic" meant no chemicals, I was wrong.

Richard p: Yes its difficult to believe it can be safe, and PSD, Dow and the RHS all say “do not eat the produce from the affected plants”. glallotments also makes a good point above:
“how can we know that shop bought produce hasn't been affected by this problem?” As I said above, my potatoes were affected but the harvested tubers look absolutely fine.

Johnboy: I think it’s the PSD that grant the licence, I did initially start looking into this and as far as I can tell (only by reading the websites of PSD & Dow) that most of the trials/experiments were conducted in the US by Dow, and PSD just accept that evidence.

I like your Cress Trial idea, and will give it a go this weekend. I still have one unused bag of contaminated compost. I have just started a trial by sowing a batch of tomatoes and plan to test them in the compost along with some grown in ‘normal’ compost. But that is going to take several weeks. The thing is that some plants tolerate this weedkiller, it might be that cress is in that group. I’ve found that courgettes/marrows, radish, onions and brassicas are unaffected in my veg patch.

Hi JK,
I actually grow Mustard and Cress and Mustard and Cress are both of the Cruciferae family as Brassicas.
Perhaps a Cress test is not the right test to do!
What I do know is that they are both very susceptible to herbicides but of course this is a herbicide that none of us really know the full implications of the damage it is possible of doing.
One thing for sure is that if you manage to grow Mustard and Cress with no problems then your Brassicas could well be safe.
I suspect that Richard is correct in his assumption that the PSD took Dow's write-up of the product and granted a licence which that in itself would be a scandal because it means they will be ducking out of half the costs as opposed to great financial burden placed on British Companies.
I would like to know the name of the Organic Company
who sadly seem to have got caught twixt a rock and a hard place!
JB.

It appears that comprehensive testing of aminopyralid was done in Canada.

If you are interested there are 87 pages of results HERE

From emails to our website it would appear that more than one brand of organic manure/compost is affected and that in some cases as in JKs case the supplier has supplied to at least two branded labels.

I am told courgettes and marrows thrive and are unaffected. I don't know if this means they don't absorb residue and are safe to eat or they just aren't affected.