Food miles not organic!

[Colin Miles]

I am confused. What is an artificial chemical? Or is it a case of Henach, henach, ffolach, ffolach? It is rather late at night.

[Cider Boys]

Damn plagiarism as well, it was my idea to write this book!!!

Barney

[Tony Hague]

Organic farms use considerably more diesel than conventional farms so perhaps that should be taken into consideration.

But you must take into account the huge energy in manufacture of agrochemicals. For weedkiller IPU, for example, this is about twice per hectare that of the diesel used for mechanical weeding.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/farm/organic/policy/research/pdf/env-impacts2.pdf, see P55.

Stolze et al (2000): organic wheat production 21-43% less energy input per tonne
Pimentel et al (2003) 29-70% greater energy efficiency in organic wheat and corn crops

Now, perhaps I should come clean that I do have a vested interest - I wrote the auto guidance software that allows this to keep itself lined up with the rows:


PS: I hope I'm not breaking netiquette - not meant as a plug, just for interest; it is a bit big for most kitchen gardens !

[Cider Boys]

Hello Tony

Thanks for a very interesting and thought provoking link. It will take me some time to read it all and even longer to understand it all!

(It does make my forthcoming book seem a little light weight!)

Were the authors of the report solely the MAFF, English Nature, European Union and Soil Association?

I hope the interesting discussions will continue since the subject is so far reaching.


Hello Peter

I do appreciate you re-kindling this subject; I agree the forum was becoming a little mundane without the old chestnut!

Barney

[Tony Hague]

The authors' affiliations are given on the first page.

ADAS is an independant consultancy
Elm farm is an organic research organisation
IGER is a BBSRC sponsored research institute - presuming they haven't managed to shut it down yet

As far as I can see, English Nature, European Union and Soil Association ware not involved.

[Chantal]

This subject is being debated on BBC Breakfast as I type. One of those text/email your comments in things to go with the item so it's on for a while yet.

Also
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6326653.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6302611.stm

[Cider Boys]

Yes, it was also debated on Radio 4 Today programme this morning.
Typically Humphyrs let the SA spokesman speak without interruption whilst he regularly interrupted the opposing spokesman.

A case of:

HOW DARE YOU SPEAK WHILE I AM INTERUPTING YOU!!!

The Soil Association spokesman was asked do they still approve spraying copper on their organic potatoes, yes - probably for the next 5 years, was the reply.

If they were true to their philosophy and wanted any respect for consistency they would admit the fact that under their own definition of ‘organic’ there is no such thing as an organic potato since their growers spray for blight protection the same as all other potato growers do.

Barney

[Mole]

Barney

I heard that item, and after reading your thread listened again to be sure it was the same item as yours.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/listenagain/

compared to the usual Humphries interview. no interruptions of any consequence were there -interjections to both speakers which didnt faze either.

I was surprised as a government spokesman that Mr Hollis was so childish in the way he 'bet £100' that Copper sulphate would still be in use in the future. Maybe it will, but it won't be for lack of trying.

Also he was either misinformed or lying when he said no pesticides had ever been withdrawn for safety reasons - only because the 'testing' was too expensive.

[Cider Boys]

Mole

The SA spokesman had a clear uninterrupted time to make his initial point, the reply was interrupted by Humphrys after a few words.

I do not know if he was being childish or not but why is it ok for the SA to approve copper sulphate? Is it because their members would loose financially in not being able to grow potatoes without the fear of blight? They should not grow organic potaoes until they find an alternative that is in keeping with their philosophy. They move the gaol posts to suit themselves and now people are waking up to challenge their unsubstantiated claims.

Barney

[richard p]

perhaps in this case they are trying to be pragmatic?

[Johnboy]

Richard,
There is not a Pragmatic bone in the structure of the Soil Association as well you should know!
JB.