Kitchen Garden Forum

Anybody know anything about this company and its products?
http://www.windsave.com/
The costings are under Windsave Guides - Costs, Grants & Payback.

- or using windmills in general for that matter.

Johnboy wrote:Hi Jenny,
You quote William the Conqueror and I'll quote Oliver Cromwell. Oliver Cromwell died of Malaria and according to the "experts" this week The Mosquito responsible for Malaria needs about 16C to live and breed so what was the temperature when he was about? Then you can come to the much later period when the rivers used to freeze over eg, Winter Fairs held ON the river Thames. In the periods in between these recorded events, temperatures have been going up and down like yo-yo's. When the Danes first inhabited Greenland it was just that, a green land. There are farms buried in the snow and ice that are just beginning to be uncovered again. There is a castle in Wales that had one side protected from invasion by the sea yet it is now 700 yards inland. All these are pointers to what has been happening over the centuries and what is happening today is nothing but normal for the planet earth but it seems that it has to be Co2 produce by man that is responsible. Well I'm afraid that I am one person who believes that the Sun is responsible for Global Warming and until mankind can say he can control the Sun then and only then will anything that man does effect Global Warming.
I do not mean that we should not smarten our act up and that fossil fuels be used as efficiently as possible but the recent legislation I fear will only cause us all a load of grief and no end result.
However many fears you can whistle up on Nuclear Power I think this is the way that we should proceed.
I feel Jenny that we will have to agree to disagree on this.
Just this morning it has been announced that the government have OK'd a Tidal Generator that will provide enough electricity for 5000 homes. Seeing that there are 25,000,000 million households in the UK it really is a spit in the ocean. I understand that there are about 50 such sites around the UK coast that are suitable but although I like the technology it really isn't anywhere enough.
JB.

Where did I quote William the Conquerer?
I can't honestly say I know enough to come down one side or the other about the reasons for global warming and I'm loathe to believe propagandists whichever side of the fence they're on. To me it makes moral sense not to squander resources of any kind, nor to generate unnecessary waste - it's just part of being nice to the environment and living things (including human beings!) on this planet.
I believe with more willpower on the part of government and more investment in research, as well as disincentives against us being so wasteful, we could eventually be self-sustaining in energy.
So, yes, we'll have to agree to disagree, for a change!

Just came across this article about someone who's doing something about sustainable energy, rather than saying it's impossible:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0315/p12s ... tml?page=1

Yes Jenny, but it cost half a million dollars It should only take him a couple of centuries to recoup the outlay.

Alan

I knew someone would say that - read the whole article. That was the cost of the first system ever built, he said he thought he could build another for £50,000. The motor car was beyond the reach of ordinary people for years until Henry Ford invented the production line. Now you can buy a car for £100 or less. Computers are another example. Why are people so ready to dismiss alternative technologies as impossibly expensive and unrealistic solutions when the last 150 years have shown us time and again how efficiency increases and costs reduce dramatically if there's a demand for something? Sheesh!
Seriously though, I was just posting the article as an example of a different attitude to the pro-nuclear lobby.

MY cynicism is reserved for the posturing politicians and the legal knots they will tie the UK up with in the name of being green.

I have great admiration for people who manage to reduce their consumption of resources.

How much energy is used to create an offshore windmill generator?
What is the units design life?
How much energy will it produce in that lifetime?

These are the questions by which all other alternative power sources should be judged.

England used to be littered with wind and water mills, largely built of wood, quietly working away doing a useful job, grinding local corn, for local consumption, low food-miles with ecologicaly sound mechanics. On top of that extra "natural" environment for insect, fish, fowl and mammal that is good to look at, well the water mills at any rate did.

It is somewhat ironic that 'everyone' is becoming keen on low-energy light-bulbs just at the time when an somewhat alarming report comes out about the extent of Mercury pollution everywhere on earth. There could be a massive disposal and pollution problem in a few years time which could make the worries about nuclear waste pale into insignificance.
No such thing as a free lunch. These things need to be looked at in the wider context.

Dear Jenny
I didn't want to sound dismissive - really. Like you I think much more resources should go into developing alternative energy sources. Also, we need a serious look at our expectations.

The motor car was beyond the reach of most people long, long after Henry Ford invented the production line - like the late 60's in the UK. It still is way beyond the reach of the vast majority of the world's population.

Do we have a human right to own:
car
television
computer
central heating
DVD/video


We had none of these when I was young(er), and clearly didn't miss them as they were mostly not available.

Alan

I have not been able to keep up to date with this thread due to an electrical energy crisis in my laptop charging unit. I have just made some repairs that I hope will last until I can get the correct parts. This has not caused me any real problems only an inconvenience.

Accepting that electrical energy in this country has to a large extent been taken for granted it is however of paramount importance to our civilisation. During long power cuts in otherwise law abiding countries the thin veneer of civilised behaviour has soon broken down and affected regions have suffered from looting and further unchecked criminal behaviour and the most vulnerable have suffered the most.

Many contributors may wish to rely on windmills (or just hope) for forms of electrical generation acceptable to their ideals. I for one would rather trust a modern proven technology such as nuclear power generation.

As our prime minister has had to accept, the government is responsible for the security and safety of the population and it is no good trusting in well meaning ideas when they are totally inadequate

Johnboy, I’m sorry to read that you are considering emigrating from England, but alas you are not alone. Many proud English people are doing just that due to the crazy attitudes of the ruling chattering classes.

Hold on I’m convinced the pendulum will swing in the opposite direction and the crackpots will be replaced by the pragmatists.

Best wishes.

Barney

I have read this tread with interest; I love this forum for exactly this kind of debate. I 'grow my own' and keep chickens because I like to - its my hobby but in the back of my mind there is a nagging feeling that maybe, just maybe, within my lifetime I will need to.
That said, there have been times when the garden has seen us through tough times already.
We live a fragile existence really, and if the shop shelves are bare I dont think it will be anything as complicated as global warming, It will be something much simpler. Remember how quickly the supermarket shelves emptied when a few petrol tanker drivers went on strike? A disease that wipes out farmed chickens, or any other livestock is not exactly science fiction or a great leap of imagination is it.
I recycle because it seems a reasonable thing to do. We waste too much and in the western world we use far more than our fair share and as was pointed out earlier - we are running out of room and resources. Its more about being ‘fair’ to me than trying to save the planet.

Hi Sue,

To quote this penultimate sentence of your posting.
We waste too much and in the western world we use far more than our fair share and as was pointed out earlier - we are running out of room and resources.

A couple of things have been on the radio in the last day or so.
Apparently we throw away almost a third of all food we buy and it ends up in land fill sites where it eventually produces green house types of gas. This figure does include peelings and bones but the majority of the stuff comes from out of date food from retail outlets. It was said that also the waste contains a high proportion of food left on our plates and other cooked waste.
You may be interested to know that South Shropshire Council in conjunction with a private company has been running an experiment with this form of waste.
In Ludlow they have built a Digester that is fed by the household waste collected from their selective bin collections throughout Ludlow and surrounding districts. The experiment is nearing its end and as far as I can gather it has been a really great success and it is likely that more digesters will be built.
The Digester uses the gasses given off to generate small quantities of electricity and when the digester has done its work the waste becomes a fertilizer and is returned to the land. The building housing rotting waste awaiting digestion is kept at negative pressure so there are no awful odours pervading the district.
Now if this were to be replicated nation-wide the Landfill Problem would decrease quite rapidly. I wonder just how many councils will not even consider it.
I think it is a super concept that an awful lot of planning has gone into it and although it may not provide that much electricity it solves several things that are bugging councils at this present time.
The other thing is that two Meteorologists both Professors have come out against what is being said about global warming because the statements made cannot be substantiated with hard scientific evidence.
This is exactly what I said a couple of days ago when I said that theories are being represented as facts. What is so dangerous with this practice is that they then take these “facts” and use them as part of a calculation and they come out with some astonishing findings. They then publish their findings and alarm everybody when in truth their findings may be a million miles from the truth.
If you start anything using a false premise then the answer is always going to be wrong.
I think this is what the scientist on the channel 4 programme were trying to convey.
JB.

When I lived in Australia 14 years ago they were already harvesting the methane from landfill sites and using it to create electricity. There's so much that can be done to conserve limited fossil fuel supplies. We are only just beginning to scratch the surface of the possibilities.

Hi JB - I know about this digester project and as someone who 'farms' worms on the side to work a similar magic on some of my waste I think it is a fantastic project. The Great Global Warming Swindle was on TV again last night and I agree some the 'experts' are make some fairly wild claims. I be guided by what I hope is a good dose of common sense. The digester projects are costly to set up but do solve a major problem and as with all new things, will probably reduce with time. ITs the fact that we can not only reduce waste but actually turn waste into a valuable asset/commodity that will drive this kind of project. I know football and golf clubs that pay a huge premium for worm cast mixed with sand for their greens and pitches - market forces and cash have a stronger driving force on humans than pretty much anything else so I have faith that the market economy will kick in pretty soon. Landfill tax is becoming an issue for many businesses and is becoming more than just a blip on the profit margins.

Hi Jenny,
Most landfills have been vented to allow the methane out which depending on your point of view is a good thing or a bad thing. I suspect that collectively there is a lot of Methane given off so whether it could be harvested in sufficient quantities is beyond me.
I suspect that I read somewhere that experiments had been carried out but really heard no more. Which means they generally failed.
There are hundreds of things that MUST be at least tried. I feel that it is better to fail than to never have tried at all.
Car Tyres are a great problem and now when you go to have your tyres changed you have to pay 90p (may differ in different regions)for their disposal.
There was a documentary programme several years ago
about the young fellow who had invented a method of burning used tyres without emitting all the filth.
The emissions from his furnace were well inside the acceptable parameters. The steel contained within the tyres was all salvageable. I can't remember whether the heat was to be used to generate any electricity.
His furnace and the way the gases were contained was never really realized because he was unable to obtain the necessary capital to set it all up on the scale needed to make the scheme meaningful. Tyres were a problem then every bit as much as they are today. The government of the time should have snapped him up like there is no tomorrow but now we are in tomorrow time and we still have massive problems with these bloody tyres.
Should anybody know any more about this furnace I would be most grateful for an update.
Jenny, I do apologise for putting words into your mouth. The error occurred when you quoted Richard P. in your posting. I plead old age a partial insanity!!
If anybody has any schemes running or under experiment in their area it would be great to know about them. Especially where local councils are involved and actually doing something instead of sitting on their backsides moaning.
JB.

Even councils need 'inspired and enlightened' staff for this to work. In 1984 my local borough council offered tenants free compost bins or a wormery! over 20 bloody years ago! I take my hat off to the chap (or chapess) who found the budget for that 'initiative' when 'Green' meant no more than a colour. I still have my free compost bin and wormery (it was a 'Can-o-Worms'worth over £100 quid now) It would be good to have a register of all these projects and experiments. Surely in this infomation age there is a website somewhere?