PETITION to the PM for MORE allotments

[carlseawolf]

hi allan
i agree with you on what you say about the sole aim of any policy on murder should be to mininise the number of future murders and been locked up for the rest of my life is the worst thing i can imagine , but thats what keeps the majority of the general public on the right side of the law.
there has always been an arguement about the innocent ones that got hanged and i agree on this point it will happen most likely in the future thats why between sentence and hanging there should be allowed maybe three appeals and a maximum ten years to clear there name before hanging.
how to punish serious crime will be a debate in goverment for along time yet - but it will always come back again and again until a policy is in place the general public like and trust.
an old saying is this IF YOU CAN'T STAND THE HEAT STAY OUT OF THE KITCHEN if the MP'S have a conscience then that is there problem they desided to go into politics so they have to expect to make tough desisions , thats what they get paid for and why we elected them.
i to don't like the idea of jail or hanging , but i also don't like the fact children get murdered or sexually assulted, old people can not walk down the street that they went to war to protect because they don't feel safe, and now there not even safe in there own homes ,or policeperson are to scared to go into some estates unless they go ten at a time and can not solve crimes due to intimidation of witnesses.
If law breaks down and is seen not to be working then there is no law , i'm not saying we should hang 4 people before breakfast and not feel guilty but the threat of hanging is abit like our nucular weapons we have them in place but hope we never have to use them. If the general public sees justice been done the criminals will not be able to get away with it.
here's a final note on the innocent few, do you remember the 3 year old girl who was taken and died in the car crash , the man responceable had done the same crime before and served his time and was in a half way house under supervision all but two hours a day when he was free to do as he pleased - did he go fishing or train spotting , no he took a 3 year old girl for his pleasure and ended up killing her , and after found guilty and all the deductions were taken off he is expected to serve THREE years .
WITH JUSTICE LIKE THAT NO WONDER CRIME IS ON THE RISE! [/quote]

[Piglet]

I fear the real reason Mp's disregard we mere plebs is that they do live in a different world to us.

Its all very well Alison living in a nice big house in Monmouth where your neighbour is probably a field away, trying to justify why you didnt jail somebody in your role as magistrate. I suggest you try living next door to them and actually see for yourself the consequences of your actions, the real consequences in the real world.

We dont get to choose anything of political importance if the politaks think we may vote for what they dont want.

Why cant we vote for the death penalty
Why cant we vote for the EU contitution
Why cant we vote for devolving Scotland

And if we do get to vote and come up with the"wrong" answer, just like the French did in the EU constitution, does it not lie dead but it comes back like Hydra for another vote until we do get it "right"

Why Why Why????????

Sort that out Alison, and you may find respect for politicians.

[Alison]

Allan has hit the nail on the head when he says that the aim should be to stop more murders. That should surely be a main point of all punishments - to stop re-offending.

Believe me, in court we see exactly what the consequences of crime are on the victims. I can assure you that the fervent desire of most victims is that it should not happen again.

So is it better to have the offender locked away for a couple of months after which he gets out and does it again?

Or to have a community order for one or two years which provides the opportunity to make them get up in the mornings, keep appointments, and compel attendance at courses to deal with drink abuse, drink abuse, domestic violence, anger management, illiteracy and innumeracy etc plus doing unpaid work, with the result that at the end of it the perpetrator is far more likely to have another way of earning a living and conducting himself, and is consequently far more likely not to do it again?

The problem with prison is that it does not work. Except for the couple of months that someone is actually inside, prison is worse than useless in preventing re-offending in the majority of cases, as 2-3 months is not sufficient to deal with the underlying causes of crime. And don't forget that if someone has a job, they generally lose it if they go to prison, but keep it if they are given a community order.

That's why community orders, which usually last for two years if they are alternative to prison, are more effective. Given that prison costs £30,000 a year for each offender, is this a sensible way of spending your tax money and my tax money and protecting society from future crime? Plus we are running out of prison space and need new ones - who wants it built near them? And is this a useful way to spend further billions of taxpayers money?

I would prefer all that money put into the probation service and more kudos given to hard-working probation officers and social workers who are horribly over-stretched and covered in paperwork, plus I would like more attention given to reforming people's diets (being boring on this subject again!).

MPs incidentally see constituents at their surgeries. A weekly surgery can bring in 15-30 cases. In addition, they have a vast postbag. In addition, they live in their constituencies, visit all sorts of local gatherings, from toddlers groups to schools to local police stations to local charities, and are knobbled in the street! So they certainly do not live "in a different world" - in fact, they probably know more about their local community than anyone else.

You mentioned in an earlier posting that MPs get 25 weeks holiday. This promulgates the common fallacy beloved of the tabloids that an MP's job is solely to sit in the House and listen to debates. Far more than half of an MP's job is to represent their constituency; this is a full-time job in itself. Because time in the constituency is obviously limited to weekends while Parliament is sitting (as they are in London Mon-Thurs and often travelling on Fridays) Recess time is very busy catching up with visits, meetings, representations etc. However, I will agree that it is more likely that they will actually have Sundays off during Recess! While Parliament is sitting, many MPs work 7 days a week and from Tues-Thurs their working day is often 8.30am to 11.00pm.
Alison.

[Piglet]

Poor dears

[carlseawolf]

there you go , £30,000 a year to keep them locked up or ten pound for a peice of rope ! that leaves £29,990 a time to spend on doctors or nurses or a year supply of cancer saving drugs for someone been refused treatment.
the savings are even greater if you use the rope more than once but that won't be allowed due to health and safty.
the point is £30,000 is a lot of money and where are taxes keep going up but services go down and we keep hearing about more cutbacks then you can see why people would like criminals not fit to live in society delt with permanatly.
i don't blame the judges or police for the state we are in as they work with on arm behind there backs and until goverment sit up and take notice it will stay that way.
as far as more prisons that's easy take them to an unpopulated island with the building materials in spring and tell them what ever them get built before winter they live in ( i know you can't because of human rights) but this is what they did to prisoners of war so why not use it now- they will get fit doing it and learn a trade or two in the proccess and if they can't be bothered then they freeze- just like we do every day going to work to pay rent or morgage to keep roof over our heads so we don't get kicked out into the cold!

[carlseawolf]

SUDBURY OPEN PRISON has lost 2 prisoners who were serving life for murder .
i don't know why they ran as they get;
a room with no bars
a key to the room
day release to go to work
only have to sign in once a day
when the man in charged was asked on the news how many prisoners had escaped he didn't know andcould find out but it takes time and man power he has not got
ANYONE WANT A HOLIDAY AT BUTLINS NEW SITE IN SUDBURY

[alan refail]

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to provide more land for allotments for people to grow their own vegetables. More details

Submitted by Naomi Phillips – Deadline to sign up by: 20 May 2007 – Signatures: 298


This will do the following:

1. Allow people to save money.

2. Provide an area for abundant wildlife.

3. Help to absorb carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.

4. Help to cut the amount of carbon dioxide in the world's atmosphere: people grow their own food instead of buying it all thus reducing 'air miles' (and shipping and lorry pollution).

5. Provide people with a community group to belong to and enjoy.

6. Provide people with a space to exercise while doing something worthwhile - it will benefit them in two different ways at the same time.

There simply aren't enough allotments around. I belong to one, half of which has just been taken over by the golf course next door, halving the allotments while only increasing the golf course by about 3%. I believe there is a waiting list of people desperate to obtain a plot, but there simply isn't enough land.

____________________________________________________

Sorry to bring you all back to the topic this thread is supposed to be about. You will notice that a few more signatures might be a good idea.

Personally I find it highly unpleasant to read some of the comments posted so far - particularly on a Forum devoted to gardening. You (I won't list names, but you know who you are) are welcome to your opinions, please just don't force them on the rest of us under the heading "Petition to the PM for more allotments". You could start a new thread such as "Bring back hanging" or "Let's slander politicians", but I assume Mr PH would remove it. Or why don't you start a new petition on

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/list

[Johnboy]

Thank you Alan.
A letter framed as you have was long overdue.
Over the years, on this forum, we have had an unwritten law that the two things we do not debate are Politics and Religion. I do not mind the odd snipe at the government, and am guilty of just that, but this thread has gone way over the top.
I do hope all you budding politicians have at least had the decency to vote for the petition!!
I do recognise some people on the list but not all who have contributed are yet there. Please vote as to me it is an exceedingly important issue.
JB.

[Tigger]

Thankyou Alan and JB. I have been considering locking this thread as I think it has breached the Forum's rules about personal comments. If members want to have a direct debate with others, please use the PM system.

[alan refail]

Thanks Johnboy and Tigger for your support.

Yes - I have signed the petition. Though I am now a country gardener with my own land, I helped to run a large inner-city allotment site in Yorkshire for ten years and cultivated 5 allotments of my own for many more years. I know how important allotments are.

We must keep religion and politics off this forum, apart from the odd (reasonably good-natured) sideswipe at either.

Cofion gorau
Best wishes

Alan

[Mr Potato Head]

Unfortunately, as is so often the case when politics is involved, this discussion has become too personal. Amusing side-swipes at public figures are fine, but vitriolic personal comments on other forum members will not be tolerated.

I think it is important to discuss politics, religion and current affairs, even within the confines of a gardening forum. However, I do want it to remain rational and good natured. (You're all quite capable of using the internet, so why not include links to support your arguments? ) After all, this is a gardening forum, not the house of commons .

So, I'm going to lock this topic, but leave it as sticky until the petition is finished. If you want to start another topic about politics, religion or (god forbid) allotments, then feel free, but the same rules will still apply!