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Re: A Fresh look at weeds pests and diseases.
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:12 pm
by Johnboy
Hi NB,
On Google just underneath a Wiki entry I found this on the Food Web and this made me really laugh. I do hope you see the funny side of all of this because it not meant to be anything other.
Who is Dr. Ingham?
Dr. Elaine Ingham is an energetic, easy-to-understand speaker who explains what life in the soil is all about. Behind this "user-friendly" approach lies a wealth of knowledge gained from years of intensive research into the organisms which make up the soil food web.
JB.
Re: A Fresh look at weeds pests and diseases.
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:27 pm
by Nature's Babe
Like you Johnboy I am careful to test things out for myself and not just take facts on the net for granted.
Re: A Fresh look at weeds pests and diseases.
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:18 pm
by Nature's Babe
Colin that attempt by GM to smear her reputation does not appear to have worked,as fairly recently she has been appointed chief scientist at the Rodale institute where her world renowned expertise will be most useful.
to quote Rodale
Our research
Our Farming Systems Trial® is the longest-running side-by-side U.S. study comparing conventional chemical agriculture with organic methods. What have we found? Organic yields match conventional and outperform them in years of drought and environmental distress. New areas of study include rates of carbon sequestration in chemical versus organic plots and new techniques for weed suppression.
Re: A Fresh look at weeds pests and diseases.
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:24 pm
by Johnboy
Hi NB,
I do not understand your reply because if what is written in this website then you and I and just about everybody else would be able to understand what she is actually saying.
http://www.soilfoodweb.com/brief_bio.htmlThe first paragraph of this website made me roar with laughter and if you cannot see the funny side of it then I simply give up!
She certainly doesn't write in a clear and understandable way otherwise you and I would not be thinking of deciphering what the hell she is on about!
Mycorrhizal fungi are needed by some plants, absolutely critical for other plants, and are probably detrimental for other plants.
What bothers me is that none of the plants are named so how the devil are we to try and decipher what is what.
JB.
Re: A Fresh look at weeds pests and diseases.
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:43 pm
by Nature's Babe
Well Johnboy actually she does mention them, perhaps if you had read further, you would have come accross this
You need to know what kind of plant you have, but in general, very early successional plant species, such as many (weeds, brassicas, mustards and kale crops do not require Mycorrhizal fungal and may be harmed by Mycorrhizal fungi. Annual vegetables, flowers, grasses and row crops or broad acre crops need vesicular-arbuscular Mycorrhizal fungi. Most evergreen plants require ectomycorrhizal fungi, and blueberry and ericoid plants require ericoid Mycorrhizal fungi.
The percentage of the root system that must be colonized has not been fully established in the Mycorrhizal literature, mostly because determining benefit is relative. Mycorrhizal fungi can protect the roots from disease organisms, through simple spatial interference, by improving nutrient uptake, and by producing glomulin and other metabolites that inhibit disease. Stress in plants can be reduced because the Mycorrhizal fungi can solubilize mineral nutrients from plant not-available forms to plant available forms, and translocate those nutrients to the root system in exchange for sugars provided by the plant.
it seems fungi are disease and weed inhibitors, in fact if you listen to Paul Stamets fascinating video they have many uses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XI5frPV58tY
Re: A Fresh look at weeds pests and diseases.
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:15 am
by alan refail
Johnboy wrote:Mycorrhizal fungi are needed by some plants, absolutely critical for other plants, and are probably detrimental for other plants.
What bothers me is that none of the plants are named so how the devil are we to try and decipher what is what.
JB.
Nature's Babe wrote:Well Johnboy actually she does mention them, perhaps if you had read further, you would have come accross this
Well, there is not much specific naming in the extract you quote. And there is a good deal of surmise. As for the language - it's either highly specialist and opaque to the general reader, or it's mumbo-jumbo. I have put in green what is pure surmise or imprecision and in red what I do not understand without looking in a scientific dictionary.
You need to know what kind of plant you have, but in general, very early successional plant species, such as many (weeds, brassicas, mustards and kale crops do not require Mycorrhizal fungal and may be harmed by Mycorrhizal fungi. Annual vegetables, flowers, grasses and row crops or broad acre crops need vesicular-arbuscular Mycorrhizal fungi. Most evergreen plants require ectomycorrhizal fungi, and blueberry and ericoid plants require ericoid Mycorrhizal fungi.
The percentage of the root system that must be colonized has not been fully established in the Mycorrhizal literature, mostly because determining benefit is relative. Mycorrhizal fungi can protect the roots from disease organisms, through simple spatial interference, by improving nutrient uptake, and by producing glomulin and other metabolites that inhibit disease. Stress in plants can be reduced because the Mycorrhizal fungi can solubilize mineral nutrients from plant not-available forms to plant available forms, and translocate those nutrients to the root system in exchange for sugars provided by the plant.
As for Dr Ingham's worldwide reputation, a Google search contains no references to her from the wider scientific community - all the the links being to her own websites or references to her on permaculture and similar "alternative" sites.
A similar thing happens if you Google Paul Stamets.
Re: A Fresh look at weeds pests and diseases.
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:52 am
by Nature's Babe
Alternative to what Alan? Your implications are very subtle, and permaculture or organic's is not a dirty word. As both you and Johnboy admit to not reading about the soil foodweb, I fail to see your interest here unless it is to rubbish anything that anyone else says that does not fit in with your particular world view. May I politely point out that others are entitled to their opinions, I am entitled to mine and to explore Elaine's ideas, this thread is about the soil food web, may I respectfully ask that if you have no desire to discuss the workings of soil systems and the foodweb that you desist from posting here.
Re: A Fresh look at weeds pests and diseases.
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:59 am
by alan refail
Nature's Babe wrote: May I politely point out that others are entitled to their opinions,
But not I to mine, apparently!
Actually I find the tone of your reply patronising, verging on the offensive.
If you do not want comments I suggest you start a closed blog somewhere and do not keep posting on a discussion forum.
Re: A Fresh look at weeds pests and diseases.
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:17 am
by Nature's Babe
I merely ask that you stick to the subject under discussion Alan which I would be only too happy to debate.
Re: A Fresh look at weeds pests and diseases.
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:33 am
by alan refail
Nature's Babe wrote:I merely ask that you stick to the subject under discussion Alan which I would be only too happy to debate.
I have apologised for my Arthur Fallowfield digression.
The two posts I have made since then have been entirely on topic. I note you have not responded to any of the points I made. Debate?
Re: A Fresh look at weeds pests and diseases.
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:00 am
by Colin Miles
NB- of course you are entitled to your opinions but Alan, Johnboy and myself are merely trying to establish the facts. As I tried to point out and Alan confirmed, her reputation seems to be largely self-created and, as we have all pointed out, the content is very obscure - certainly not easy to understand as claimed. The KG Forum is excellent for practical advice. Is this really the sort of thing that we should be pointing new-comers to? Would it not be better discussed on another more appropriate Forum?
Re: A Fresh look at weeds pests and diseases.
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:43 am
by KGAdmin
Agreed Colin,
A circular debate on the standing of a scientist and his research isn't really what KG readers want to read.
I think we would all appreciate less linking to other sites and quoting from such - and more useful and light hearted discussion on allotment and kitchen gardening and growing.
To this end I am closing this topic.
KGAdmin