Kitchen Garden Forum

Nurserywoman Sue Beesley, who runs Bluebell Cottage Gardens and Lodge Lane Nursery, in Cheshire, has written an 'open letter' to Alan Titchmarsh following his 'defence' of peat use. It makes some excellent points and hits the nail on the head with passages such as:

But I really mind very much that, as the nation's Favourite Head Gardener, you have said publicly that, in effect, you can't grow plants to your satisfaction without it. The amateur gardeners of the world listen to you, and the message is clear - if the great AT can't grow without peat, then they surely can't. And that, I'm sorry to say, is simply not true ... I think your special status means you can and should lead from the front, help drive up demand for high quality peat-free composts, to thus drive up standards and give gardeners the confidence to follow your lead. That's what I wish you'd said. I sincerely regret that you didn't.

Sue, who grows 30,000 annuals, herbaceous perennials, trees and shrubs each year using peat-free compost says: "No special effort is required - in fact visitors comment daily on how healthy our plants look. They are currently flying out the door faster than I can restock."

You can read Sue's letter here (and you can visit her nursery - details on the link):
http://lodgelanenursery.blogspot.com/20 ... marsh.html

Dear John Walker,

I apologise if I have upset you. I did say that I admire you as a propagandist and it is unfortunate that, as you say, the word has negative connotations. I am not trying to undermine you, simply to get at facts. But facts based on science rather than what often passes for science on the web, which is repeating other peoples opinions where 'facts' are stated simply by repeating what other people have said without giving the sources. The web, by its very nature, simply propagates the same information endlessly, rather like a virus, or maybe a meme as Dawkins might say.

If the moderators think that I am being unfair and in anyway derogatory, then they should remove my posts.

Emma Coopers sources are merely where she got the information from. These sources - the Independent, for example - do NOT give any information as to where they got their information. This is what I mean by Chinese Whispers.

I totally understand John Boy's reluctance to engage in this discussion - to be honest it's intense arguments like this that have stopped me being as active on the forum. I usually avoid these sort of threads now but having read Alan Titchmarshes comments in another magazine I was drawn here. One comment made in the article that I read was that he didn't use coir as it required lots of air miles to get it here (so do the ban peat people advocate using coir?). He also says that he uses peat based composts SOMETIMES not always.

It just seems to me he is being a realist and not an idealist. In the real world we often have to compromise our principles.

Idealism often leada to aggressiveness which is why this will be my one and only comment on this.

Folk have discussed this subject untill it's become boring.
To quote Freddy,

Don't you guys EVER let up ?

these kind of posts are not conducive to the smooth running of this forum. nor does it help the atmosphere.which is a shame as this place has the ingredients to make a fun site. If only everyone could be more tolerant and accept others views might be valid instead of needing to prove their opinions all the time in an effort to sway others
Big Yawn....
I notice folk posting less often lately, many new questions go unanswered, new comer's disappear again, not surprising as there is one new one in unanswered questions that has been there ages. I look in every now and then in the hope things might change.

Admin where are you?

I hope Admin take note
like Gallotments this will be my only post on this thread

Well said NB.

I beleive it was admin that suggested the possibility of a politital section on the forum. Perhap's now would be a good time to implement it.

NB, "Admin" has a number of other sites to look after and the burden of regulating a "political" arena would fall on the Moderators, to whom grumbles such as yours below should be addressed.

Speaking personally I'd prefer it if people concentrated on gardening stuff and friendly banter on here and put the campaigning semi-political stuff on the Greenpeace website.

With all due respect, Peter, I think you will find that Greenpeace and other environmental sites do not discuss, they campaign (which is what this forum is being used for). On the other hand, I fail to see how something as fundamental to gardening as compost (peat-based or peat-free) can be considered as anything other than "gardening stuff".

Granted Alan, but I for one am fed up with having to keep reading for and against peat.comments every day, it was more of a wish.
As a moderator I have to read every single post and some variety would be nice.

I actually enjoy reading debates such as the one regarding peat use. It helps educate me about the many facets around its usefulness and possible harmful effects. I may not agree with John Walker’s views but I find his writings well written and at times thought provoking. The debate has encouraged other contributors to raise much important information to take into consideration regarding the use of peat. May I politely suggest that those that do not enjoy passionate debate make a point of not reading it. I find some posts on this site to be trivial, banal and irrelevant therefore I don’t bother reading them, which is my choice. If some like to debate with passion, then that again is their choice and their contributions should be encouraged and not be censored.

@Cider Boys
Thanks for your post, I agree entirely with its sentiments. Discussions like this are much more fruitful and thought-provoking when those joining in, whatever their viewpoint, show a genuine interest in healthy debate as opposed to cheap point-scoring and a constant need to undermine others' contributions. Long may healthy debate and robust, respectful and good-natured argument continue.

As you rightly say, there is no compulsion for anyone to join in with anything.

Back to Alan Titchmarsh and peat...

The Easter weekend saw a flurry of articles, mostly in newspapers, which those with a genuine interest in the fast-evolving discussion around ending peat use might care to follow up on (there's inevitably some crossover in some of the articles).

10 facts about peat
A list of 10 facts, many of which have been discussed in other threads. NB In the second one it should read "300 million cubic metres" (not litres). This is a government figure and they always use cubic metres for peat volumes.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening/84 ... -peat.html

Row over peat: Alys Fowler vs Alan Titchmarsh
A slightly over-excited headline as this isn't exactly Fowler/Titchmarsh going head-to-head (Titchmarsh has funnily enough gone into 'not available for comment' mode) but it does include comments from some of the 27 professional gardeners surveyed by the RSPB on using peat (see link to the RSPB survey below).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening/84 ... marsh.html

Experts on peat
The views of some 'experts' on using peat use, including Alys Fowler and Charles Dowding (Alan Titchmarsh is merely quoted from his article in BBC Gardeners' World magazine).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening/84 ... -peat.html

Titchmarsh named and shamed as peat compost row cuts up rough
Again, this piece draws on the results of the RSPB survey (link below).
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 73738.html

Experts back switch to peat-free gardening
"A survey of some of the country’s most respected gardening experts shows growing support for an end to environmentally damaging peat-based compost."

This link is to the RSPB press release, which lists the 'experts' surveyed.
http://www.rspb.org.uk/media/releases/2 ... -gardening

The most striking omission here is our very own Captain Carrot/KG editor Steve Ott, who says in his welcome to the May issue of the magazine:

"Now, however, there are some very effective peat alternatives on the market made from a range of different materials. They have always been pricey (on average 10p per litre as opposed to just over 4p per litre in some outlets in my area where there are multi-bag deals on peat-based composts), but I have found that they will grow very good plants and I have been happy to pay the premium. As a result I haven’t used any peat for the past three or four years."

You can read Captain Carrot's comments in full here: http://www.kitchengarden.co.uk/news/whe ... eat-debate

Dear Moderators,

The original links to the Defra site had at least the merit of being fact-based, even if they admitted that on many points there was a lack of factual information. However, many of the subsequent posts have pointed to links which have merely been to opinions, surveys of opinions and the like, endlessly repeated and merely propagating themselves - can be a good way to get up the Google ladder. No matter how well-intentioned this may be, no matter how well-qualified some of the people may be, it doesn't really add anything 'concrete' to the debate. That will only come about when more genuine information is available - well we can but hope.

I would therefore respectfully suggest that, in order to save yourselves the trouble of reading the same thing over and over again, that these peat-based 'discussions' be closed.

Incidentally, I bought a bag of bullrush professional peat-free multi-compost from the Coop the other day - convenient price and size for what I wanted. Apart from the odd lump of wood it seems ok. But without an analysis that is purely an anecdotal opinion.

I do not think that you can justify closing a discussion on the basis of not wanting to read the same thing over and over again?

With respect, I would venture that to adopt this policy would start a precedent that may close half of what is written on this forum!

The debate is too important to close. I am still of the view that the harmful effects of peat use (in this country) are exagerated. Whilst the benefits of responsible use of peat in horticulture are not appreciated by those wishing to ban its use.

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/news/Di ... ticle.html

Barney

Another uproar over peat extraction from a well used site.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ma ... r-13237389

If anyone knows Chat Moss, comments would be welcome.

Unless the discussion is rude, offensive, or personal it will not be closed, however bored the moderators get reading the same two entrenched viewpoints.