Kitchen Garden Forum

The American abuse of the English language in particular the spelling destroys the structure of the language. First, English is a hybrid based principally on Latin and Greek with additions from French, German, Arabic and so on. The pronunciations that we are familiar with largely take this into account, but so often the Americans hear the words then spell them as they read them, or the converse. In many cases this obliterates the link to the original language. I wouldn't mind so much if they called it American then we could do as we see fit with English. So much of theirs is clumsy, about the worst that I can think of is when we are told "don't miss out on...." I don't deny that the meanings of words change but is it always for the better. how about Album, now meaning a collection of music, in Latin meaning White. Do we have to say Transportation when talking about transport vehicles , I hope I don't get sent away for life!

Sorry Allan but I've never read such a lot of tosh. English is derived from Anglo-Saxon, not Latin and Greek.
American is closer to old English than modern British English is, because when a language 'migrates' it slows its development.
American English is closer to pronunciation in its spellings than British English.

never have two countries been separated as much by a common language.

Our English is a living language with new words being added all the time, American English is a pure bastardisation of its form. Here in Leicester we have a large Asian population and its really funny to hear them speaking in a native tongue and realising that every fifth word is in English because their native tongue cannot adapt and form a new word.

Take, for example, two words that we both spell the same but Americans can`t, for the love of money. pronounce properly. These words are

TOMATO and OREGANO.

An awful amount of Americana in our language is pure laziness, for example spelling colour, color, its just too hard for them to put that extra letter in.

Fairplay to Americans calling

Tights "pantyhose"
Trainers "sneakers"
Trousers "pants"
Waistcoat "vest"

But lets` not confuse our English with its roots taken from Old saxon, Norse, Latin, French, Germanic and indeed punjabi (dont forget verandah) et al, with the glib, baby food "english" that Americans use,

Heaven help us if we do, hot dog and soda anyone?

I can't take this criticism of American English lying down!
American is not a 'bastardisation' of English. As I've already said, if anything, American is closer to old English than modern English is. As are Australian, Canadian, Kiwi etc.
To say certain words can't be pronounced 'properly' is to imply that there's a 'correct' way of pronouncing them. There isn't. And thank God because then we wouldn't have all the wonderful accents and dialects that we do have. Try telling a Yorkshireman he isn't pronouncing 'grass' properly!

Jenny is, of course, entirely correct! Correctness in language is an arbitrary thing. Individual words exist because there is/was a need for them, and as needs change with changes in society and in the way we live generally so language evolves and adapts to fulfill our communication needs. Here's one example of liguistic evolution from our own lifetime: The non-emotive word "regular" is, even as we speak, coming to mean "standard, not special, ordinary". Before we embraced this word we had to use words like "ordinary", "normal" "unexceptional" and all of these have the suggestion of "sub-standard", somehow inferior, which is not in many contexts what we WANT to suggest.We needed a word that was neutral, unemotive. The word "regular" is a transatlantic import and, like most such, is being adopted here because it fulfills a need.

MY hang-up is the death of the woderfully expressive braid Scots dialect caused in large measure by pressure from parents and schools who saw it as inferior to Standard English, and a marker of social class. A REAL national tragedy.

bloody hell,started off reading about the weather.

Sorry Jenny but I feel that the English language has evolved over two thousand years plus, American English has evolved over about 400 years, and as its so obviously "different" to our English but carrying the same roots then "bastardisation" is a fair term. Just as English English has bastardised other languages words to suit us. Dont read negatively into it.

There is a big difference between regional accents and the total re-spelling of words and I never think that Nora batty would put on her "pantyhose" do youor indeed know what they were.

American words are indeed spelt how they are phonetically spoken, this isnt old English Jenny, its evolution and it misses completly the hertitage of our words and their makeup. Of course American English is a different language to ours, you even get the choice on most computer programs of downloading it as either English US or English.The differences are obvious and as America is still only a young country, its own language is part of its evolution and should be celebrated and indeed encouraged, but lets not call it English, because it isnt, and that isnt a criticism Jenny.

Hi Jane

I've got no objections to people hiking. I do it myself with the family. When we did one of the munros in Scotland last summer, it was one of the familys defining moments.

What I object to are these idiots who go up "because they want to" without any idea about what they are getting themselves into. These people didn't even have waterproofs, food or water. It didn't occur to them to cuddle each other to keep warm.

I think that the emergency services should be paid by the people they have rescued. They put their own lives on the line for people who, mostly, shouldn't be up there in the winter. They only need rescuing because of their own stupidity.

I know there are genuine emergencies ie, fall resulting in broken leg, unforeseen weather comes in etc. It's the ones who do not have the brains to realise that the mountains,countryside and coasts should be treated with respect and should put common sense into motion first.

Sorry, people, this is going to be a rant - look away now if you're of a nervous disposition...
Wait a flippin' minute, Lake View!!! So "the Brits have changed the language, not the Americans", eh??? Walk around with your eyes, ears and mind shut, then, do you?
If you'd care to look at American and British history since we started to colonise that continent several hundred years ago, you'd notice that English has changed a lot since then on both sides of the Atlantic. This is largely due to the differing cultural influences prevalent in each country through the centuries. The process is called linguistic evolution and it happens for many reasons (some of them more intelligent and/or noble than others, but I won't lengthen this rant any more than I have to by going into that).
When language differs from something we've grown up believing is correct, it tends to jar on the ear. That's human nature and we have to get over it or go bananas (twitch, twitch). My personal tooth-grinder is pronouncing kilometre as kil-O-metre - which has its origin in American mispronunciation, by the way, not British. Until our trendy media folk got the insane idea that US-speak sounds more dynamic than UK-speak, we all used to say KIL-o-metre (just as we STILL say KIL-o-gram - who's going to be the first to foul that up by changing it to kil-OG-ram?). Sigh.
Going back to the weather presenters (they breed them on a separate planet, you know), it just drives me up the wall when they put the phrase "its way" into almost every sentence ("the wind is moving its way north", "the fog will travel its way across Wales", "the clouds are blowing their way in from Siberia", blah blah blah). The reason they all sound the same is probably that they are just front people - the reports are written by the same person every day, thus the repetitive nature of the piddle-poor language.
Incidentally, I object to being called a Brit (bet you wouldn't call a Japanese person a Jap and expect them to give you a smile in return!).
Oh well, that's me done for today. Going to get a nice cup of tea and a sticky wad now. Toodle-pip, chaps....

Well, if we're going to be pedantic, and it seems we are, English hasn't evolved for 2000 years because the Anglo Saxon invasions didn't start that long ago.
It's an accepted fact in linguistic science that any languages' evolution is slowed when it is taken to another country. I'm sorry but this is my professional field so I do know what I'm talking about. I can find the references if you're really interested.
There are many dialect words for things in England that differ from region to region, such as 'alley' and 'snicket'. This isn't very different from 'pantyhose' and 'tights'. We still basically understand each other, so in linguistic terms American English isn't a separate language, it's a dialect of English.
I have a demanding toddler on my lap and will post more later.

If we had a moderator we could split this rant session into two threads - the pro/anti charging for emergency rescue services and the slightly more academic debate about the English language! Its exactly this kind of debate that keeps me logging on! Its a great site for info re the garden but its just as great for 'the meaning of life' debate. Long live the KG forum - best on the web

Sorry Jenny, I didnt realise that we didnt have a language here in Britain until the very learned Anglo Saxons arrived.

Were we limited to grunting and gesticulating until then, or did our language evolve upon their arrival and linguistic dominance.

If its taken for a fact that a languages evolution is slowed when its exported, then I must dispute that fact and the people who believe it should open their eyes and get into the real world.

Whilst English is a dymanic language, American English is evolving much much faster rate. Just look at how many words added to the Oxford English Dictionary have their roots in the states. Just look at street language, rap music, corporate speak, they all originate in the States and we absorb it, not the other way around.

Are you really suggesting that American English is Evolutionary challenged. Its probably the most dymanic in the world, but that wasnt my point. My point was that American English is not English as we know it, and really, unless you are really are blinkered, it isnt.

Lizzie,

you are right about your comments, I would no sooner take a small child up a mountain in winter with no proper clothing or preparation than let them play on the M1.

Its an increasingly unfortunate sign of the times Lizzie that people are unable to assess danger for themselves and rely on others for rescue. Perhaps an "idiot" fine might make some of the numpties wake up a little.

Piglet Willie, much as I respect you, I must suggest that you do some research into the history of the English language before continuing this debate. The language spoken in this country 2000 years ago was Celtic. When the Angles, Saxons, Jutes etc. arrived they forced the Celts to the margins of the country, i.e. Scotland, Wales, Cornwall and over the sea to Ireland. Celtic survives as Gaelic, Cornish and Welsh. English is based on Anglo-Saxon, as I have said, and is very different from these languages, and has only been spoken in this country since the land was settled by the invaders.
The phenomenon of the evolution of language has been thoroughly examined and documented for the last 50 years or so, through thorough examination of all existing evidence we have. I admire your self-confidence in disagreeing with this based on your personal, lay-person's opinion as someone who apparently has never studied languages and doesn't even know the history of his own language, but I'm afraid this point is indisputable.
Your assertion that American is evolving more quickly now might be worthy of some debate, but I would point out to you your own example of the migrants you hear incorporating English into their language. This also affects English as natives speak it, because these migrants' children will introduce their own words back into English themselves.
It appears that you're referring to Standard English as some kind of pure example that American doesn't follow. You may be interested to learn that Standard English is based on the dialect that Caxton chose to use when he first started printing books, and this is the only reason that it has gained any kind of pre-eminence. It isn't any more 'pure', better or more correct than any other dialect. All versions of English remain dialects until the speakers are unable to understand each other, whether the speakers are in another county, over the border or in another country.

where does my geordie accent figure in this,im feeling a little left out.