Hence we get the politicians we deserve, elected on short-term, 'whats in it for me' issues.
We're all doomed, doomed I tell you.
Government agenda to get us all growing
Moderators: KG Steve, Chantal, Tigger, peter, Chief Spud
But a politician can do nothing if unelected, and is anyone going to get elected on an agenda of limited family sizes, downsizing our over-consumption and investing in projects overseas to ensure millions of refugees don't arrive on our shores. Which is going to happen as climate change and mismanagement of resources drive them from their homes,(I'm sure most people would rather stay home if they could live reasonably there).
Hence we get the politicians we deserve, elected on short-term, 'whats in it for me' issues.
We're all doomed, doomed I tell you.
Hence we get the politicians we deserve, elected on short-term, 'whats in it for me' issues.
We're all doomed, doomed I tell you.
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madasafish
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- Location: Stoke On trent
Faith in politicians is misplaced.
Most are human.
Most in power get it wrong and lie.. and frankly have got so used to lying don't know what truth is.
To suggest the elctorate are so stupid/scared/ignorant as to not being able to accept the truth about hard choices .. is muppetry.
So when politicians do not tell the truth, they are not worth voting for.
And anyone who complains about politicians but does not vote is a whinger and not worth the time of day to listen to.
The solution is in our hands.
Most are human.
Most in power get it wrong and lie.. and frankly have got so used to lying don't know what truth is.
To suggest the elctorate are so stupid/scared/ignorant as to not being able to accept the truth about hard choices .. is muppetry.
So when politicians do not tell the truth, they are not worth voting for.
And anyone who complains about politicians but does not vote is a whinger and not worth the time of day to listen to.
The solution is in our hands.
The normal cycle of life is being tampered with too much. Fertility treatments are so available and at the end of it all we are not allowed to die naturaly. Now we have the stem cell saga. We are getting very good at keeping everyone alive. Surely this does not bode well for the human race in the not too long run.
Regards,
Gerry.
Regards,
Gerry.
Dear madasafish,
sorry if you think I'm being a muppet for suggesting that people vote on a short termist basis, i think I'm just reporting what I see. A local council offered it constituents a choice of levels of council tax, explaining which (major)cuts to services would be needed to support the lower ones, the lowest rate got voted for.
On a dailly basis its very easy to make the choice for what is good for now not the long term, if this wasn't the case I, along with a lot of other people, would be thinner, richer more organised...
I also disagree with the widespread distrust of all politicians, I'm sure a lot of them at least started out because they wanted to make things better,
sorry if you think I'm being a muppet for suggesting that people vote on a short termist basis, i think I'm just reporting what I see. A local council offered it constituents a choice of levels of council tax, explaining which (major)cuts to services would be needed to support the lower ones, the lowest rate got voted for.
On a dailly basis its very easy to make the choice for what is good for now not the long term, if this wasn't the case I, along with a lot of other people, would be thinner, richer more organised...
I also disagree with the widespread distrust of all politicians, I'm sure a lot of them at least started out because they wanted to make things better,
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madasafish
- KG Regular
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- Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:51 pm
- Location: Stoke On trent
Di
I'm sorry, did not mean to imply you were or are a muppet!
But and here I talk about national politicians .. there is little discussion on key issues.
Se immigration for one.
As for politicians lying, I refer you to the current PM who amongst other things said he was not going to hold a GE (blatant lies) and would bring troops back from Iraq (more lies) and the withdrawal of the 10p tax rate will not cost anyone money (more lies).
I do not see any of the Opposition parties being much better if they were in power.
A few more MPs like G Dunwoody who dies yesterday would be a good thing. She told it as she saw it.
I'm sorry, did not mean to imply you were or are a muppet!
But and here I talk about national politicians .. there is little discussion on key issues.
Se immigration for one.
As for politicians lying, I refer you to the current PM who amongst other things said he was not going to hold a GE (blatant lies) and would bring troops back from Iraq (more lies) and the withdrawal of the 10p tax rate will not cost anyone money (more lies).
I do not see any of the Opposition parties being much better if they were in power.
A few more MPs like G Dunwoody who dies yesterday would be a good thing. She told it as she saw it.
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KGAdmin
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It should be noted that on immigration - any time the government mentions 'immigration' they are ONLY talking about outside EU people, as EU countries now can wander where they like, and our Government has no control over this under current legislation.
(hence they are not termed 'immigrants')
Needless to say, its always been outside EU immigrants that have provided the essential skills and extra labour we need in the UK (Doctors etc) and excessively limiting this has already had negative effects.
meanwhile the uncontrollable flow of unskilled from EU countries continues.
KGAdmin
* Speaking strictly personally!
(hence they are not termed 'immigrants')
Needless to say, its always been outside EU immigrants that have provided the essential skills and extra labour we need in the UK (Doctors etc) and excessively limiting this has already had negative effects.
meanwhile the uncontrollable flow of unskilled from EU countries continues.
KGAdmin
* Speaking strictly personally!
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Primrose
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Maybe if the government want to get us all growing vegetables they should try talking to local Councils who seem to be selling off allotments to developers for blocks of flats at a rate of knots. Or maybe they should make a new planning rule that all new houses should have gardens big enough to have a vegetable patch of a certain minimum size. Sooner or later with the world's growing population the food shortage crisis will really start to bite. At the moment we're seeing it in the form of higher prices but eventually it will actually be actually shortage of foodstuffs too.
Hi KG Adim,
It would appear that you have not taken into account the several thousand British subjects that work in the European Union. Due to the result of bad British governments in the past many graduates from universities and colleges are forced to seek positions in Europe because there are none available here.
It is said in this area that the Polish and Latvians are taking the jobs from the locals but they are only taking the jobs that the locals will not do.
I feel that it is about time you sat back and looked at why these people are coming here and then kick a few British arses.
These visitors to our shores work exceedingly hard for the money they earn and they should be more appreciated. They work long hard hours! Do you?
JB.
It would appear that you have not taken into account the several thousand British subjects that work in the European Union. Due to the result of bad British governments in the past many graduates from universities and colleges are forced to seek positions in Europe because there are none available here.
It is said in this area that the Polish and Latvians are taking the jobs from the locals but they are only taking the jobs that the locals will not do.
I feel that it is about time you sat back and looked at why these people are coming here and then kick a few British arses.
These visitors to our shores work exceedingly hard for the money they earn and they should be more appreciated. They work long hard hours! Do you?
JB.
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Chantal
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True JB, I was watching BBC Breakfast a couple of weeks ago and the fruit growers are desperate for pickers this summer. The TV crew went into the local towns and asked those in the job centre queue. The offer was "up to £15K, by working all the overtime available, for the season" and everyone asked turned them down. "Boring", "too much hard work", "not what I want to do", were just three of the excuses, they'd rather collect their benefits. Pathetic.
What bothers me is that (I know someone who does this) someone can come from Poland, work here, claim child benefit for four kids who live in Poland and send the money back home. How does that work? Would I get the same benefit if I went to work in Poland? Half my family live in Poland and from what I understand the benefits there are few and far between. It seems very one sided; does anyone know if the reverse is true?
What bothers me is that (I know someone who does this) someone can come from Poland, work here, claim child benefit for four kids who live in Poland and send the money back home. How does that work? Would I get the same benefit if I went to work in Poland? Half my family live in Poland and from what I understand the benefits there are few and far between. It seems very one sided; does anyone know if the reverse is true?
Chantal
I know this corner of the earth, it smiles for me...
I know this corner of the earth, it smiles for me...
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KGAdmin
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Hi Johnboy,
Good reply - and you are right. I badly worded my last post - a controlled flow of EU people is important, and many are filling vital jobs.
However, the flow is still uncontrolled - and our current benefits schemes, housing and medical cannot cope with massive fluxes in population. Resulting cutbacks in other areas as these systems try to cope is what is as damaging.
And yes - I work hard!! And would happily do manual labour if needed.
(AT one point in my early life I ran a Astro-slide in a funfair!)
The unwillingness of today's youth to do manual labour is another matter entirely
KGAdmin
Good reply - and you are right. I badly worded my last post - a controlled flow of EU people is important, and many are filling vital jobs.
However, the flow is still uncontrolled - and our current benefits schemes, housing and medical cannot cope with massive fluxes in population. Resulting cutbacks in other areas as these systems try to cope is what is as damaging.
And yes - I work hard!! And would happily do manual labour if needed.
(AT one point in my early life I ran a Astro-slide in a funfair!)
The unwillingness of today's youth to do manual labour is another matter entirely
KGAdmin
Hi KG Admin,
The foreign workers who come here all pay British Tax and National Insurance and as such are entitled to the benefits that this brings. We hear of cases where British Benefits are sent home and their own country gives them benefits as well which of course is wrong. It was admitted that the British administration had no way of informing the home country that benefits were paid here so because of a lack of will on our behalf it will still continue.
I live in an area that grows an awful lot of soft fruit and without European Labour the fruit would simply not get picked. I have even heard that if these 'Foreign Johnnies' were not about there would be no need for the poly tunnels.
As regards housing, one soft fruit producer had a well run orderly village of caravans for these workers but the local authority made them disband this so now the local housing lists are getting longer and longer. The person who heads the anti poly tunnel faction is no other than Monty Don. I suspect this is more a personal ego trip than anything to do with poly tunnels. British Farmers need to combat foreign imports and although reports keep on saying half the county is covered in tunnels in truth only 0.27% of the ground area is covered.
What amazes me is that the vast majority of the complainers about both foreign labour and poly tunnels are people who, in their teens, went to the continent to pick fruit during their college or university summer holidays. Very short memories I suspect. All they are worried about is that it may affect the price of their property. Poor sods!
I feel that I should really apologise for the final comment in my previous letter which I suspect was more than a tad impertinent.
JB.
The foreign workers who come here all pay British Tax and National Insurance and as such are entitled to the benefits that this brings. We hear of cases where British Benefits are sent home and their own country gives them benefits as well which of course is wrong. It was admitted that the British administration had no way of informing the home country that benefits were paid here so because of a lack of will on our behalf it will still continue.
I live in an area that grows an awful lot of soft fruit and without European Labour the fruit would simply not get picked. I have even heard that if these 'Foreign Johnnies' were not about there would be no need for the poly tunnels.
As regards housing, one soft fruit producer had a well run orderly village of caravans for these workers but the local authority made them disband this so now the local housing lists are getting longer and longer. The person who heads the anti poly tunnel faction is no other than Monty Don. I suspect this is more a personal ego trip than anything to do with poly tunnels. British Farmers need to combat foreign imports and although reports keep on saying half the county is covered in tunnels in truth only 0.27% of the ground area is covered.
What amazes me is that the vast majority of the complainers about both foreign labour and poly tunnels are people who, in their teens, went to the continent to pick fruit during their college or university summer holidays. Very short memories I suspect. All they are worried about is that it may affect the price of their property. Poor sods!
I feel that I should really apologise for the final comment in my previous letter which I suspect was more than a tad impertinent.
JB.
As for immigration, i'm saying nothing. I used to work for the Home Office in the Immigration and Nationality section, so i'm still bound under some legislation to say nothing.
As for politicians, I don't like any of the national ones, not one. I mean, honestly, would you buy a used car from any of them?
However, my local councillor is a godsend. He's worked hard with the allotments, negotiating with the council for us, and he works tirelessly in the community. If there is a problem and you can't get to one of the surgeries, you knock on his front door and tell him. Or, you stop him on the street and he does call you back. He always keep the area informed of what's happening by putting letters through the front door outlining the problem and what he's done about it. He really is a great person. He's liberal but, as a mainly labour city, we never see the labour councillor who doesn't even live in the area he's supposed to represent.
There should be more politicians who do it because they want to change things, and not just as a career option.
As for politicians, I don't like any of the national ones, not one. I mean, honestly, would you buy a used car from any of them?
However, my local councillor is a godsend. He's worked hard with the allotments, negotiating with the council for us, and he works tirelessly in the community. If there is a problem and you can't get to one of the surgeries, you knock on his front door and tell him. Or, you stop him on the street and he does call you back. He always keep the area informed of what's happening by putting letters through the front door outlining the problem and what he's done about it. He really is a great person. He's liberal but, as a mainly labour city, we never see the labour councillor who doesn't even live in the area he's supposed to represent.
There should be more politicians who do it because they want to change things, and not just as a career option.
Lots of love
Lizzie
Lizzie