Kitchen Garden Forum

I also have two plots each termed as half a plot and approx 224 square yards each.

Both were bare plots when I took them on with a healthy assortment of couch grass, Bindweed etc.but each now has a shed, large greenhouse and fruitcage... I wouldn't be too chuffed at having to give one up until I am ready or without adequate compensation.

As OH has said each year there are some new people on the site who appear once or twice never to be seen again and their plot becomes a jungle for the next tenant.

Yes, like OH if the rules had stated I would have to give up my plots I would never have taken them on in the first place and probably by now our site would have been 'under concrete'.

Allotments were intended to help the less well off to grow their own food but now-a-days they are becoming more leisure pursuits, and it helps to retain our very vaulable limited open green spaces.

I don't think you can equate them with housing or you will have us being means tested next.

Beryl.

Yes your right OH, I wouldn't take one on under that premise either, and your right on your second point also, this is a fashion crisis, many younger couples and families look at my plot with it's raised beds, greenhouse, shed and permanent crops and think ah, bliss I can have one of them, six months later after taking on only half a plot I am saying.......hey what are you going to do with this unruly mess? Well they say. it was like this when I took it over, and we have a debated about taking it back off them, they dig a little, try to grow something, complain about the pests / weather disease and we have the same conversation again and they give the plot up saying......it's not fair!!!

And as my wife wisely reminded me yesterday, as of yet we have not had to use the second plot rule, we currently have another 'fly by night' on the waiting list. And I would not want a dedicated double plot holder to give up one for their whim. However, we are accountable to the parishioners and the public and if have that rule we must honour it, all I wanted to do is make sure that if that day comes we have a fair and square system to sort it out.

I was using the housing comparison very loosely Beryl, given that social housing is 'just enough' basic shelter, so an allotment was the same, but I would not propose a rule of that kind today, interestingly one site up the road which is short of ground, divided all its plots in two, to ease the waiting list, then plotholders could put down for a second half plot on the same list as newbies. And when you get your second half, its yours for as long as there is a site there, a better idea I think.

Meanwhile I can't keep on top of a single plot myself, not in the fashion I would wish in any case.

Compo

Dear Compo, i think you are just showing your caring nature, i'm afraid you can't please everyone all of the time how ever hard you try.

On our site some years ago when we had in excess of 13 vacant plots out of 40,some members took on the adjoining vacant plot because they were fed up with the weed's. We now have stopped the waiting list at 17,do we expect the plot holders with two plots to give up one, after sweating blood on them over the last few years? at one stage I had 2-1/2 plots took on for the same reason, though I have now gratefully relinquished 1-1/2. Shallotman

This is the problem on our site - some people have worked hard on their multiple plots taken on when allotments weren`t so popular. It`s a tricky situation now that they`re the `new Rock `n Roll`.

I don't think it is a tricky situation at all.
Unless you have rules that definately says you must give up if there is a waiting list then the answer is a definate NO.

Local authorities are bound by law to provide allotments if the demand is there.
Those on waiting lists,if they are not prepared to wait,should lobby their councls to make more land available. Not penalised those that haved worked hard for many years to keep the sites open for future generations.

Beryl.

I hate to be pedantic Beryl, but I do like a good debate, not sure if your argument holds water though, if you have several people with double plots, surely you are artificially creating a waiting list, which would be reduced if people only had one plot, however, if you have a waiting list of thirty and only five have double plots you could argue that twenty five people need new plots, then your argument about the council's obligation may be more persuasive. I think it is unrealistic to expect to hold two plots for life no matter how much work you have put in.

However, the beauty of this site is that we can have different opinions and a healthy debate, which is great

Compo (standing down as chair person at next AGM) someone else can have a go!!

Our site had many empty plots several years ago and the council vulture came a circling to reclaim some of the site due to underuse. Several people took on extra plots and many still have two or three plots including myself.

We now are in a situation where we have a waiting list, of 17 to be exact and whilst many of these people will be allocated a plot as every year some people dont keep one on, none will be given a plot that is already let to somebody, even a multiple plot holder, unless thay are not cultivating it. You cannot expect people to take plots on one minute for the good of the site and then expect to take it off them when times are good. What happens next time you struggle to let plots??

The very idea stinks of rank amaturism and unless your society rules expressly say that can happen the plot holders are well within their right to tell you to bog off.

Previous comments about allotments being fashionable are all too true, We have seen fabulous allotments, well cared for for years being taken on by people who think that having an allotment is a great wheeze and we end up trying to re-let weed infested plots because they didnt realise that it took a bit of hard work to keep going. When the allotment fashion falls by the wayside (and it will) beware the council coming to take your site due to underuse because all of the previous 2 plot holders gave you the bird when you asked them to take back what you took off them in the first place.

I have been reading this debate with great interest! Myself and my parents took on one plot 16 years ago. We then over the next 2-3 years took on the weedy, vacant plots surrounding ours, and we have had four plots since then. They may not be the tidiest, but we don't half produce a ton of goodies every year! My Dad even won the flower display at this years open day (one of our plots is 50% dahlias) I have to say that nothing would get us to give up our 'extra' plots, so I'm afraid I'm with Beryl on this one. It would be absolutely heartbreaking. We do have a waiting list, but there are also vacant weedy plots, which are turned down by some people on the list as they look like too much hard work!
I do understand your concerns Compo, but I simply can't see that people would willingly give up plots they have toiled on for years......

Interestingly - ours is such a nice, well equipped site that we have people coming on to our waiting list who already have plots on other, less well appointed sites. Wouldn`t it be a b*mmer if you had to give up a plot for somebody who already had one elsewhere - -? Dunno how you`d know though

Compo, can you please point me in the direction of these "poorer" people who so desperately need allotments.

If you discount the pensioners no our site who mostly have small incomes but are not necessarily poor, nearly everybody else is either a professional person or well skilled, certainly well educated. There are enough teachers, nurses, tradesmen on our site to shake a stick at, there is even a professor, a minister and a doctor.

This perception that poor people use allotments is in the main, just that, a perception. It is the better educated people who are making use of them to a far greater extent. The only exception to this on our site being a few Bangladeshi's who due to an inability to speak good English have low incomes and having worked land at home have productive plots to help out a bit.

Yes, Compo I have enjoyed the debate. It obviously has provoked some strong feelings.

Councils can be persuaded to provide more plots. We have had a rough scrub area covered in brambles etc. which we have campained for for the last 10 years to have cleared. Now they have conceded the demand is there it was finally done yesterday. Top soil will be added and this will make 2 more plots available. Only 2 but it is a start. No double several more will give up in January when the rents are due.

Beryl.

Out of interest I used to live in Gosport up until 2001, what site are you on?

Compo

You know what Compo? I think you're going to have to change the rules. Change it to 'no more double plots while there's a waiting list, but those who've got them can carry on.' There are married couples with a plot each on our site, which gets around it a bit as each is a member in their own right. Maybe you could do a bit of 'one member one plot' wangling that way to be going on with.