HOME MADE FEED

[Johnboy]

Hi Compo,
I rather feel that Allan is trying to blind us all with, what is frankly, unwanted and unneeded knowledge.
It is not necessary to have to understand Osmosis to grow plants. I feel this is a step too far.
If you carry on as you are and carry out your experiments you cannot do much harm. The nutrients in home made brews are all mico units and are measured in parts per million. If you make a concentrate then of course they must be diluted but if you start off by adding water to a tub and then add whatever you will and just so long as the greater proportion of the soup, brew whichever you want to call it it can be used as it is without dilution.
Should you wish to make a full study of Botany then the definative work is "Textbook of Botany" by Lowson. You may be able to find one in your local Library. I have had a copy since 1946 and it has been reprinted and it has never been revised since 1945. The thing is that plant structures have remained the same. Of course there will be no reference to Genetic Modified Organisms but for simple straight plant structure it is unbeatable. It is/was the standard Textbook used by Horticulrtural Students in Universities and Horticultural Colleges certainly in my time.
It is the the finest book imaginable to learn about plant structure.
The person who is more up to date with this is Sally Wright and if you do manage to read this Sally I would be most interested to learn which book you used at your college.

[Allan]

Johnboy,If you ever see the book I recommend you will know why. It exactly bridges the gap between science and gardening which is what is wanted. There is no need for a learned tome all about botany. I suspect that you only think it is wrong because you didn't suggest it. Surely a book written in 1981 is going to have some advantages over a book of 1946.
Osmosis is a fundamental concept, without it the world as we know it wouldn't exist, there is nothing wrong in trying to understand it.
There are many more fascinating subjects explained in the book, such as a discussion about which way up to grow beans, why we have endless battles with weeds, to dig or not, the list of topics is enormous.
Ther are none so blind as those who will not learn.
Allan

[Johnboy]

Oh dear! Oh dear! What a childish letter!
Let me inform you right now Allan that Osmosis is about the very last thing I even contemplate thinking about when I am making compost or making up liquid feeds. What I was actually thinking when I read your posting was that how inappropriate the introduction of Osmosis into the thread was. It serves no purpose.
Whether an old, but never bettered book, is superior or inferior to a newer book is a total irrelevance as is most of your posting. It only serves to confuse people espesially those new to gardening.

Johnboy.

[Allan]

Thank goodness that the subjects discussed on this forum don't have to wait for your approval before posting. The original subject has been dealt with and the topic has moved on as they so often do and there is nothing that you can do about it.It's time you stopped trying to behave as a censor.If there is any management to be done I am sure that our team of moderators can cope.
Allan

[Johnboy]

Allan,
There are more threads on this forum ruined by you because you simply deviate from something you don't want to write about so you throw the thread off course to talk about something you do want to talk about.
If you want to tell us all about Osmosis open your own thread its very simple.
Your quote, "The original subject has been dealt with and the topic has moved on as they so often do and there is nothing that you can do about it."
is again rather childish.
My thoughts are that there was a lot more to be gained from Compo's original posting but it is you that has decided to censor the proceedings
by changing the subject.

Johnboy.

[Mr Potato Head]

Hey!

Stop it, or I'll get cross.

Honestly, there are thousands of books out there with many merits, although I suspect the most useful would be a list of all the stuff we don't know!

It'd be a good precedent to stop talking about the merit of books here (as we're online) and provide a good link to a website that describes the process of Osmosis... or at least a link to somewhere you can buy the books you're talking about.

Oh, and lest we forget, a link to information about organic liquid feed (If it's good enough for Alan, it's good enough for me...)

[Compo]

I understand the process of osmosis and as an ex submariner. we used to use reverse osmosis to make fresh water from sea water. But surely if I am putting natural nitrogen and potash into well drained soil and not too much of it the plant will decide what it wants, what your argument does not say is whether or not a plant is able to discriminate or not about what it eats and drinks??
And please please call it a truce you two!!!

Compo (on holiday but decorating not digging)((Sadly))

[Allan]

Compo, I agree with what you say, particularly "not too much of it", but that might be a matter of personal judgement. Reverse Osmosis is most unlikely but it is possible, I just quoted it as an example of what might happen.In fact I think I have hit this problem with the new water gel on some experimental artichokes but that is another story. What is really needed is some means of staying near the optimum conditions both for effect and for economy. With chemicals such information comes as recommendations with the pack, with the homemade mixes there is no such clue.All one can go by is results, if the plant is of rampant growth there could be too much nitrogen, if lacking in flavour not enough potash. I have never encountered the situation of too much potash from wood ash. I suppose a soil testing kit could be used but this is not usually done.
Re Johnboy's remarks I have had my say, let us hope that he will desist from personal attacks in future.
Allan

[Allan]

To Mr PH
Two points here. I still say that Plants in action is worth its weight in gold to me. I can't give a link to it as only second hand copies are available but easily found by a search and the prices given are very affordable. Its particular merit is that it explains the science of plants specifically for the ordinary gardener. It was the book for an accompanying BBC series some 21 years ago.
The second point is that there is excellent explanation of both osmosis and reverse osmosis on Wikipedia and I have already given that link.What more is expected? I put a lot of effort into providing the best possible service for no personal gain and am always willing to do more if required.It is a pity that some people seem to treat it as a means to oneupmanship.
Allan

[Jenny Green]

Re Johnboy's remarks I have had my say, perhaps he will decease in future.
Allan

We will all decease in the future, Allan, but I hope Johnboy no sooner than the rest of us!

[Compo]

Allan you remind me of Mrs Malaprop, Decease means to die.........do you mean desist, I think you have finally shown your true colours, a lot of waffle......Reverse Osmosis in plants, I was talking about an engineering process to show what I knew about science........I think sometimes you doth pontificate so much you don't know what you have said...........My pumpkins and Marrows have done great on the home made feed as have the Toms and Cukes, so hey.......who cares that much about the science?? It is the produce the pleasure and the experience that counts.....

Compo

[Allan]

The word is desist, decease was never intended.
Compo, I suggest that you keep off the personal level, there is already too much of that around.
Of course there is no compulsion to dig deeper in understanding but I am the last person to refuse to improve my knowledge base as one never knows when it will be needed. I won't go into details, suffice it to say that I have a gardening problem that can only be explained by reverse osmosis and I am very glad of the knowledge recently gained. It comes down to the instructions of the product being inaccurate and misleading. If you had not raised the subject of feeds in the first place I would never have become curious and eventually understood my problem. If our forbears had never been curious about the world around us mankind would never have had many things that we take for granted such as safe water to drink, aircraft,most modern vegetables,plastics,radio and TV,penecillin and computers.
Allan

[gloworm]

I use diluted pee on a lot of crops, works like magic

[alan refail]

And the best thread stopper on the forum

[cevenol jardin]

Back onto the feed thread -
I tried 'black Jack' (manure suspended in a sack in water to make a liquid maure feed), as described by Joy Larkom, last year and it worked a treat on all my fruiting crops.

For the next batch I uped the anti a bit and stuck bonfire ashes, manure and compfry leaves (as Joy described grass cuttings and soot used to be added sometimes)into the potato sack and hung it in a water but. After 2 weeeks it made a great feed. By constantly topped up the but the feed was always fairly weak and seemed to do nothing but good. I tipped out the sack conents twice and dug it in.