maincrop carrots ?

[Johnboy]

As usual yes Allan you are misunderstanding the situation and you know that I never thin without there being something meaningful to eat on the end. Again if you were to read the thread properly I'm sure you would have got the drift. It is selective thinning leaving the Carrots at 3" centres in any direction. Sowing at inch intervals and removing two Carrots to leave a 3" gap during the season. They are semi-mature when thinned and are very very edible. My crop is fully protected and the likelyhood of Carrot Root Fly is very very slight.
In fact the time it takes to pull half a dozen Carrots is seconds and I do not need any more than that.

[Johnboy]

Hi Herby,
I suppose selective harvesting would be a more accurate way to describe what I do on this experiment
but if I said that then people would be asking what is selective harvesting? Thinning almost everybody understands but apparently not all.
So far the experiment has gone to plan and I have had some very good results by using pelleted seed which you can sow exceedingly accurately.
I started with 14 rows 3" apart with 42 seeds per row
and when all the selective havesting is done I have 14 Carrots per row left to store. Hence 196 per variety.
I shall repeat it again next year just to prove to myself that this year is not a one-off.
The area covered and the small amount of Anti White Fly netting that I have had to use proves to me that on a smaller property I could do quite well without a massive vegetable patch. Next year I shall do the same with Parsnips to see how they fare and grow them on quite close centres to see the result.

[Allan]

Halfway in sorting this out. You have a bed, not a 100 foot row. 14 rows in that bed, each 3 inches apart. So it is a bed of nrear enough 4 foot.In that row you sow at 1 inch spacing and thin to 3 inch. What germination rate do you get from the pelleted seed e.g. do you expect 80% or more. Do you really get 1 plant per plellet? Suppose I sowed at a compromise 2 inch spacing would the carrots be usable size?
You are using Autumn King, Moles only do pelleted seed in AK2 and AF2 so I would have to buy some in.
I will have to think this through, as you must realise by now my conditions are not the same as yours
Unfortunately I notice that we haven't finished with the thunderstorms, the one that we caught recently was over 50 mms in an hour, no wounder we got mud and we haven't got cloches over the whole area as other jobs had to be done last visit and the extra cloches are parked all around.There are more expected today, if that occurs we won't get any maincrop but there are many F1s that can rescue us at other times via the tunnels.
If life were only simple as on TV and in the books.
Allan

[Allan]

I don't want to criticize your method in any way but I can't see it fitting in for me. It seems a good way of producing a uniform maincrop to meet your needs but from past experience I would not get a worthwhile price for large maincrop when competing against the carrots in the shops. Years ago I was offered such a low price that it wasn't worth digging them up, why should anybody pay more when they can get them dirt cheap by the sack.Furthermore we don't have any permanent high-grade bed outside and I don't see it happening. The way we grow carrots the diversity of our product is important to meet the different demands of customers and we can sort our production any time at home, on the farm.Even the 'runts' are precious to us so why thin and throw them away. All this coms down to 2 varieties, both F1, to do odd things with. Rocket and Primo from Moles.This allows us to sow in autumn and very early spring under cover for top grade early carrots. I estimate 1 packet of each will generously last 3 years. We will also hold unopened Autumn King to snatch an outdoor crop when circumstances allow, on the basis of minimum attention. I might still find a packet of pelleted AK2 handy, for instance it might be useful in a module system or just to get our own maincrop with good flavour.
Allan

[Johnboy]

Oh Allan,
Why cant you scroll back to page one of this thread and save yourself the trouble you seem to go through.
It is there in a posting in black and white as to what I have done. Erstwhile I have always grown Carrot in 36ft rows with protection but I am in the process of getting ready to sell my property and scale right down. Obviously the experiment I have been carrying out is a dubbing down exercise and therefore is not suitable for a commercial enterprize
it is designed to feed me primarily and my family that visit from time to time.
What I have found is that the germination of the pelleted seed is exceedingly high and with the Early Nantes 2 of the 588 seeds sown there were only 8 misses. I have not gone on to the Autumn King 2 but will be very shortly starting to progressively pull them. This has proved to me, which the experiment was designed to do in the first place, that I can grow sufficient Carrots to meet my demand in 2 4ftx4ftx1ft raised beds having nice young Carrots through the season and end up with enough in store. The costs of covering is very small compared to a 36ft row and the quality of the Carrots is superb.
Have you now gathered what this is all about. It was not designed to assist you on your commercial basis in fact really the reverse to grow on a small scale which I feel is more in keeping with forum members.
I would hazard a guess but I suspect that 99.9% of the members do not and will not ever grow commercially and as I see it growing in emormous quantities is completely lost on them. They are trying to feed there families and not the rest of the nation.

[Allan]

To put it briefly, I could not grow carrots by your method, nor would I wish to do so. I don't have any outdoor beds sufficiently workable and I certainly don't any longer have the physique to place the pelleted seed the way you do it. You are growing according to your requirements and getting success. Why go on about it. I do precision sowing very similar in fishboxes for my Red Rapid radish(Seeds of Italy), but that is on a bench in the greenhouse, not at ground level.At least the discussion has spurred me to study in detail the specifications of the various carrot seeds available, for that I am grateful. In the pursuit of the right type of carrots for myself I have found details previously overlooked.I have the highest praise for those two F1 varieties of seeds, at a practical level the cost comes out much the same as if I were to use pelleted seeds, either way most of it would be unused.
Let's leave it at that. As I said before, horses for courses.

Allan

[Compo]

Once again the pair of you have spoiled the thread by having a private argument in public get onto msn messenger have a live chat and thrash it out.

The row does not educate anyone as to the virtues of carrot sowing and cropping it has become a spat between the pair of you

Yours ............

Disappointed in Somerset

[Allan]

If you read way back, the question was answered long ago and thus as is usual the topic has moved on. To repeat, it's not too late to sow carrots. In fact if you put your prejudices aside you will see that I have been referring to some carrot varieties that can be sown to provide fresh carrots for most of the year. If you are unfortunate enough not to have a Moles seeds catalogue then go to their website for further details and when you have digested that you might like to place an order online, I am sure that they would welcome extra business. Johnboy has seen fit to stay with well-etanblished varieties in order to avail himself of pelleted seeds at extremely competitive prices, he has every right to do so if he wishes, on the other hand in order to progress with the times I am exploiting the flexibility presented by F1 hybrids, and if you think this is solely for 'commoercial' reasons then think again. we do provide our own carrots as well.
If all this bores you then why are you reading this thread, and why aren't you setting an example with your own progressive ideas, if any?
Allan

[Compo]

Allan I assume you are referring to me, I have lots of ideas on carrots, and am currently experimenting with different varieties and containers, it is not the content of your conversation that bothers me it is the way that it becomes a war of attrition and the tone of your conversation that I find spoils the actual advice that you have to offer.

I want to read about carrots, I would prefer to read it in a pleasant tone, so I am entitled, to read it and make a comment, I take on what you both say as advice just thing the tone is a bit sad and as a forum member I am allowed to say so and you are allowed to reply as you have.........and as you will.

[Allan]

Compo, If our behaviour is so bad why are you the only complainant.You seem not to know the difference betweeen a discussion and an argument. There is no argument on the subject of carrots betweeen JB and myself, just discussion as we have different requirements.You will just have to accept us as we are.
Have you checked on Moles seeds yet, I am sure that you would find it instructive.
I invite constructive comment. There are five different families of carrots, also the F1s and it needs a lot of research to find the right cultivars and methods in all that.
Allan

[pillbug]

I`m sorry but I agre with Compo.I started to read this thread because I too wanted to know which carrots I could grow to extend the season.I read it all a)because you`d taken the trouble to write it b)you were talking about varieties I use in the same part of the country,except I`m non commercial and have the raised beds due to the clay pit that is the garden.`
I`m new and love the banter but ........

[Compo]

Thankyou Pillbug

I'll say no more and hope others take the same point, I object to your tone Allan that's all, this is a public forum not a private one, and oldest is not always wisest either.

Compo

[Cider Boys]

I find the musings of both Allan and Johnboy most informative and thought provoking. Both have vast experience and are obviosly passionate about horticulture. Surely we can not dictate to contributors on how they present their thoughts.

Regards

Barney

[David]

Don't worry guys we've had this from Compo before he advocates free speach.... but only for himself.

Carry on I say, this is a debate in the finest tradition and ranks along with the house of commons and Radio 4.

When challenged in a debate of this type the mind digs deep to be worthy of the challenge and often brings forward information or insight that would not appear in a simple Q&A.

The greater the challenge the greater the response.

Thanks

David

[Compo]

Not true David my speech is as free as yours or Allans or Johnboys, I don't dislike or disrespect anyone nor is my view any less than theirs, I said what I think and they said what they thought, I just don't shout mine or go on for ever...

As I always say

Vive le difference