Kitchen Garden Forum

Hi Allan,
I take that it is your annual bath not a visit to the Fair City.
Happy 77th Birthday

Our allotment site is on the top of a small hill as its the only place where glacial action didnt remove all of the topsoil. The topsoil is a loamy clay mix to a depth of around 16" then its red marl clay.

Our first plot was more clay then loam and this has been put to permanent plantings of soft fruit and raised beds. The beds were dug down to the clay and the 12" raised beds put on top and filled with mainly 10 year old plus manure which resembled compost and homemade compost. As others have said these are highly productive as I can plant closer and much earlier thus gaining greater yields.

Our second plot which we took on in October has much better soil and it being worked on deep beds. I am not digging out the pathways to achieve this, the extra height will be gained over the next couple of seasons as we dig over the whole bed whilst adding a 6" layer of compost/manure mix every autumn. As the manure is so old its lost most of its nutrients through leaching but its a fabulous soil conditioner. Once this manure has been dug in over two autumns the whole series of beds will be indeed raised but without edging, deeply dug and well structured. After the second year when the beds are in good order I do not envisage digging them again as they will contain an open friable soil that isnt walked on. They will just get an annual top dressing of home made comost.

Now then, compost. We compost everthing in sight on the plot and at home and as the home compost bins are full it all goes to the plot. I even have people at work bring me their grass mowings to supplement our material but in no way are we compost self sufficient and I dont think we ever will be.

Sounds lovely piglet, what size are your beds and paths?

CaroleB - which green manure do you use? Sounds ideal

Hi Piglet,
To be quite frank I do not think that it is possible to produce anywhere the annual compost needs on an allotment. But I think along the same lines as Carole with green manure as this will help but still will not supply the amount you really need and as you say you are importing a certain amount as well.
I have mused over this problem many times and still cannot hit upon a formulae for success. I am lucky that I have access to as much FYM as I will ever need and the latest thing to hit us is Incinerated Chicken/Turkey Waste and this will supply the nutrient but in no way will it condition the soil.
This means that long term the soil would be impoverished and rely on things like Incinerasted CT Waste with the soil getting more out of condition year on year.
The point is that you do not have to Compost the same part each year so not only must you have a crop rotation scheme you must involve compost into that rotation. Has anybody know of a website that is of assistance?

I've done raised beds to avoid working with compacted clay. I built them this year by putting the cultivator over at ground level and then building it up with imported soil, manure and compost. I wouldn't be gardening on the soil in my veg patch, or getting very mediocre crops, because it's so difficult to work with. With raised beds everything is going well. I grow potatoes in a large area, not bedded-also squashes and runner beans. I think a lot of people use raised beds for some things and a flat area for others.

I've used Fenugreek which the slugs loved,they cleared the bed nearest the wild bit at the top of the plot! but the other bed I did when my spuds came out and covered it over with carpet in Sept,left it for 6 weeks and planted broad beans into the bed at the end of Oct,the green manure had rotted down beautifully and the beans have done very well with no extra feed.
I also grew some mustard greens which I decided I didn't like they got covered over winter and the occasional flush of annual weeds,mercury is the one we are plagued with,as long as you put the cover over before it flowers why not make use of it?
That's another advantage of the bed system and that's that annual weed seed germination lessens considerably the longer you go on,I'm noticing a lot less in the way of these and that's got to be a good thing!

Thank you carole, we don't seem to have a major problem with slugs so will give fenugreek a go this year when the spuds come up!

Hi Carole and Sprout,
I know the saying 'one years seeds is seven years weeds' sounds a lot of tommy rot in essence it is fairly true. The more you work a plot lavishing TLC on your vegetables you are automatically weeding all the time and they do lessen in time.
May I suggest with gnarled old Brassica stems that, if you have a car, lay them out on your drive way and simply run them over. It doesn't have to be done all at the same time just every time you go out move them a bit.

Hi Carole and Sprout,
I know the saying 'one years seeds is seven years weeds' sounds a lot of tommy rot in essence it is fairly true. The more you work a plot lavishing TLC on your vegetables you are automatically weeding all the time and they do lessen in time.
May I suggest with gnarled old Brassica stems that, if you have a car, lay them out on your drive way and simply run them over. It doesn't have to be done all at the same time just every time you go out move them a bit.

What a FAB idea JB....! Thanks for that tip !

Interesting thread by the way folks...
Wellie

Wellie, I bet trousers is glad that you are running over the brassica stalks now rather than beating him about the head with them like you usually do.

Great tip johnboy, thank you, will let the wagon roll this morning!

My neighbours think I'm a bit on the eccentric side anyway....if they see me running over the sprouts stalks with the car that'll clinch it!

Same here, Carole ! My neighbours recognised I'd lost the plot the day we moved in though.....

Piglet: I'm rather impressed that you can see the bumps on Trousers' head from there....
So that'll be one less Chocolate covered Duchy Original Ginger Biscuit for you on Monday then (just make a note in my diary to take all your birthday presents back as well....!)

JB: Whilst it's commendable to think up these wild and wacky ways of composting, wouldn't you like to 'get out more' sometimes ?!
Wellie

I will attempt to sum up as I see it, thus
There is general agreement that one can never have too much organic material of whatever origin. The basic rule is that the higher the fertility the faster it breaks down as the microbial activity is accelerated. It is like the action of a very low temperature fire. One has to accept this as the way things are, we are copying nature and then enhancing it for our own purposes in order to grow plants that are enhanced by breeding, many are alien to this country and all the time the original order is fighting against us. It is aggravated by the current trend to monoculture instead of mixed farming and it is totally right that we must make the best use possible of the "waste" material thus generated.The only alternative would be permaculture and this could not totally support the demands of modern man.
Allan