Contaminated Manure

[glallotments]

So far I have had a reply from one MEP saying she has written to Hilary Benn and another from one MEP saying she is looking into it.
Still national on National TV!

According to the number of people contacting my web site Surrey seems to be a hotspot!

[JK]

According to the number of people contacting my web site Surrey seems to be a hotspot!

... I am in Surrey and hoped that all keen local gardeners would have found out about this problem by now, but no!

I emailed my local allotment society over a week ago with a synopsis of the problem and links to the RHS, PSD etc etc, but having got no response I rang them last Friday to see if they checked their mail. They are a large society with 15 sites but were still totally unaware of this problem. They have bought mushroom compost from the same supplier as me but not yet used it, maybe they have been lucky this year. They believed that if this was such a big issue someone would have contacted them!

So the warnings are not getting through to everyone, I'm still not sure if the local allotment society took my call seriously, after all a few weeks ago, I would be sceptical if a stranger called warning me that weedkiller might be in my manure. It really does need to get onto Gardener's World and the front pages of the National press.

[Colin Miles]

I have not read everything here or followed all the links so maybe the questions I have has already been answered.

1) What form does the contaminant take in the affected plants?

2) Would cooking break down the contaminants?

3) If affected produce is eaten, what ill-effects might be expected?

It occurs to me that us old ones must have eaten loads of contaminated food back in the 50's, 60's and 70's, some of it as a result of using currently banned insecticides and herbicides which we ourselves would have innocently used.

[glallotments]

Colin visit our web page for photographs of the symptoms
http://glallotments.co.uk/ACManure.aspxCooking wouldn't break down the contaminants

I asked of the chemical company what would be the effects of eating the veg but didn't get an answer.

You are probably right and in fact we probably eat quite a lot of chemicals unsuspectingly when eating shop bought produce. If crops are badly affected the argument is academic as they won't produce a yield anyway. However, official advice is not to eat anything grown in affected soil whether showing signs of distress or not. It is difficult to go again official advice where health is concerned - especially for someone feeding their children - even when we may think that advice is erring on the side of caution.

People affected are seeing the results of their work dying in front of them and the hard part is that it is going to be extremely difficult to prevent this happening again.



1) What form does the contaminant take in the affected plants?

2) Would cooking break down the contaminants?

3) If affected produce is eaten, what ill-effects might be expected?

It occurs to me that us old ones must have eaten loads of contaminated food back in the 50's, 60's and 70's, some of it as a result of using currently banned insecticides and herbicides which we ourselves would have innocently used.[/quote]

[Colin Miles]

Thank you for your reply. I have now read through this thread, visited your site and several of the links from it. I think the one on the 'Withdrawal of the Milestone Herbicide Amino... is most interesting as it gives all the toxicology reports. Withdrawal seems to be on the basis of further information regarding possible groundwater contamination, certainly not on any possible adverse effects on human health - and pending further information - I hope I have read this correctly.

I have 3 growbags in the greenhouse. One contains 2 cucumber plants and 1 Moneymaker all growing very well, the Moneymaker extremely vigorously. In the 2nd growbag there was a Tigerella tomato which I cut down as it had started to rot near the base, plus 1 Tropical Ruby and 1 Gardeners Delight. In the 3rd growbag there is 1 Tropical Ruby, 1 Gardeners Delight and 1 Red Cherry. Both Gardeners Delight have some kind of damage at the tops of the leaves which might be attributed to weedkiller damage, but are otherwise growing well. And they taste delicious as usual.

Obviously in the current climate where litigation is the order of the day, NO official body is going to say that produce grown in affected soil is safe to eat. However, I am inclined to think that if, for instance, potatoes were to be tested in the same way, the possibility of them being green would mean that they would be classified as toxic to humans and banned. But maybe I am being too blasé. Ideally we grow as 'naturally as possible, but nothing in nature is all 'black and white'. There was a very interesting link in the New Scientist a few weeks ago regarding 10 ways to live a longer life. The first one being to work at a Nuclear Power station - exposure to some radiation is good you.

[Beryl]

You find the following interesting.

www.pan-uk.org/
gardening.htm

Toxic manure poisons UK gardens

Home and allotment gardeners across Britain have seen crops wither or become deformed after using manure from farms sprayed
with the herbicide aminopyralid. Dow AgroSciences, which manufactures aminopyralid, has posted advice on its website: 'As a
general rule, we suggest damaged produce (however this is caused) should not be consumed.' Aminopyralid is not licensed for use
on food crops and carries a label warning farmers not to sell manure that might contain residue to gardeners.
Problems with the herbicide emerged late last year, when some commercial potato growers reported damaged crops. The
contamination appears to have come from grass treated with the herbicide 12 months ago to kill broad-leaved weeds such as dock
and thistle. The grass was probably made into silage and fed to cattle during the winter months. The herbicide then passed through
the animals and into manure that was later sold. Horses fed on hay that had been treated could also be a channel.
Bryn Pugh, legal consultant at the National Society of Allotments and Leisure Gardeners, is preparing claims for some members to
seek compensation from manure suppliers. But it was extremely difficult to trace each batch of manure 'It seems to be everywhere.
From what I know, it is endemic throughout England and Wales. We will be pressing the government to ban this product,' he said.
Dow is planning a major publicity campaign to reiterate warnings to farmers over usage, and to encourage allotment holders to
check the provenance of manure that they put down in an effort to prevent the problem escalating.
Tell-tale symptoms of crop damage include distorted foliage, with cupping of leaves and fern-like growth. There are no remedies once
damage has occurred and susceptible crops include potatoes, tomatoes, beans, peas, carrots and lettuce. It is best to turn over the
soil in the area several times to incorporate the plant tissue allowing it will decompose and the chemicals to be degraded by soil
microbes. The plant residues need to be given time to break down. The advice is not to replant for a year.
Home-grown veg ruined by toxic tertiliser, Caroline Davies, The Observer, 29 June, 2008


Beryl.

[JK]

and it's also got into the Daily Mail today: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1033933/Vegetables-ruined-polluted-manure-bought-farms-used-industrial-strength-weedkiller.html

Headline: Vegetables ruined by polluted manure bought from farms which used industrial strength weedkiller

Unfortunately the comment from the RHS guy seems to have become muddled:
Guy Barter, of the society, said: ... snip ... 'The good news is that the weed killers should be gone by 2009 but this year's plants and produce are probably ruined

that's not correct, he makes it sound as though the weedkiller is going to be banned. What I think he meant was that the weedkiller in this year's compost/manure should be broken down by 2009, and that if nothing is done we will see many more of these cases next year.

[Johnboy]

Hi JK,
Trust the Daily Mail not to print the truth.
The spray is not at an industrial strength spay it was an agricultural spray probably used at the correct strength but the point they have failed dismally to make clear is that it should not be used for anything other than broad leafed grassland including cereal crops.
The point they should have been stressing is that it should never have been released to the gardening sector. It is only because the conditions of use have been breached that all this terrible tragedy has occurred.
Don't get me wrong because I feel that this particular range of herbicide is not necessary and should be banned. But the way as portrayed in the Daily Mail, which to my mind is a mine of misinformation at the best of times, means they have not got to grips with the salient points.
It is great that the daily papers are gradually getting to grips with the news. I suspect that it is typical of the Daily Mail to misquote what the RHS have said.
JB.

[Colin Miles]

I know that Johnboy said that we should ignore any input from the US but I do feel that the Technical Assessment by the New York Environment agency might shed some light on the substance in question and how much we should worry or not about it's presence in plants. The report is contained on the link from gallotments web site and I won't attempt to summarise it. But do bear in mind that these people have to be very cautious in their use of words, and that the tests involve feeding alarmingly high amounts of the substance to animals over a very long period of time, not to mention pregnant rats and rabbits. When, for instance, 7 out of the 8 mammalian tests produce negative results well... think what you will.

As we have seen in the discussion on Use by/Sell by dates, most people on this web site, whether Organic or not, can be very pragmatic about potential health hazards and I would suggest that it would be useful to do the same regarding this. Yes, all this should NOT have happened and lessons have to be learnt, but perhaps we shouldn't panic too much and throw produce away unnecessarily.

[glallotments]

The DM was a very disappointing article!
I wholeheartedly agree - I thought the good news bit was flippant to say the least.

One MP Paul Burstow MP for Sutton and Cheam is asking for questions to be raised in Parliament - Good for him - where are the others?

[glallotments]

Colin,
We have a couple on our site with young children - it is hard to ignore official advice on not to eat something if you are then going to feed your family. To be honest this situation could well have made them decide to give up their plot!

[Colin Miles]

I understand the concerns but if some of the reports are to be believed (and I have my doubts), then this particular herbicide has affected commercial growers as well, so if your young family goes back to buying food they still have NO guarantee that it is 'safe'.

As I said before, NO official body, indeed, NOONE anywhere is going to say that ANY kind of potentially contaminated produce is safe to eat for fear of litigation. The New York technical report states that the substance is NOT a carcinogen. Indeed, apart from being a severe eye irritant, it appearsto pose minimal dangers to mammals - , if what they say is true, allegedly, etc., etc., - you see how I must cover myself.

What I am trying to say is that we should try to keep a sense of perspective about this affair, deplorable as it may be. If the media really blow up a storm then the allotment movement could be doomed.

[glallotments]

Explain Colin,
Why the media blowing up a storm would mean the allotment movement would be doomed?

You may have misunderstood my quote about the young family - they haven't given up - just want rid of a pile of contaminated manure and their soil back to normal!!

As an allotment holder myself this doesn't make me want to give up growing my own because as you say I have absolutely no idea what I am eating from the commercially available food.

Publicity will hopefully get the government to sit up and tighten the legislation and then us allotment holders can feel more secure.

At the moment our answer is simple use our own composted waste and no manure or similar

[glallotments]

Just realised how that sounds by our own waste I mean garden waste!!!

[glallotments]

PSD have issued an update today which makes interesting reading

http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/garden.asp?id=2480

Seems we can now eat our veg!!!