Modified Superspud

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Nature's Babe
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby Nature's Babe » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:20 pm

Thank you OH, it was far from my intention to cause this and I apologise too to Shallot man for diverging from the subject.
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby alan refail » Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:15 am

Morning OH

You made a valid point yesterday. However I can't say if people are put off posting on the forum because of "rudeness". You know as well as I do that anyone who posts what they call a "silly question" are invariably told that there is no such thing and they should ask what they like and they will get helpful answers. I'm not sure that some other forums would be so polite.

When it comes to more controversial matters, as opposed to practical problems/advice, then a degree of confrontation is likely, if not inevitable. If someone posts an inflammatory statement or an unsupported claim, I, like Johnboy and others, are going to reply. Sometimes the reply might appear "aggressive", but that's often a result of frustration. I don't see it as "bullying", which involves an attempt to dominate a weaker person who has usually given no real provocation to the "bully".

My apologies also to Shallotman
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby Johnboy » Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:20 am

Hi OH,
I to am indebted to Shallot Man for bring the Super Spud to our attention.
I must say at this point that I truly believe that GM has an awful lot more to offer and wish that those who are against GM would pause and think why they are against it.
I am not at all enamoured with large conglomerate companies and I am pro-GM as a concept. I think to the future and do not mourn the loss of something, most of those against GM, never knew in the first place.
On the world web there are some awful examples of those against GM who for reasons, unknown to me, are forever trying to sow the seeds of doubt into people minds.
We have our own GM Potato blight trial going on at present which certain organizations have clutched at their final straw and complained about the cost of the trial. Had the trial been one into organics they would not comment on the cost and would have tried to slap down anybody who did.
There should be no rights or wrongs in this because science is there to be explored. The reason that the organic faction so abhor GM is really now
the fear of being proved wrong. To be proved wrong would mean loss of face and I very much suspect that this is what this is all about.
The Super Spud could benefit everybody who eats Potatoes and so far I have yet to see any comment from the organic faction but be assured it will follow shortly. To them it is getting the hymn sheets in place so that every spokesperson says exactly the same thing. So predictable!
There is no reason why this Super Spud could not live up to it's claims but it will surely be condemned in the very near future. Why!
JB.
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby oldherbaceous » Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:30 am

Morning Alan, i very much appreciate your reply too.

It's just the way that these topics always seem to end, with a lot of bad feeling. And to me they make for upsetting reading.
I do know, that i don't have to read certain topics, but that just doesn't seem right on a forum like ours.

Anyway they were just my thoughts, so lets hope we can move on.
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby oldherbaceous » Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:41 am

Thank you, Johnboy.
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby John Walker » Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:21 am

Posted for information

The Observer, 26 September 2010:

Just because GM is gaining popularity doesn't make it right

The government has warmed to the idea of genetically modified food but sceptics are right to raise concerns

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... griculture

The Independent, 26 September 2010:

Public opinion stopped GM, says campaigner

Global resistance has halted the biotech giants, reports Environment Editor Michael McCarthy from the IoS co-sponsored Sustainable Planet Forum

http://www.independent.co.uk/environmen ... 89974.html
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby madasafish » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:42 pm

If people were serious about GM, they should put into practise what they preach and only eat non GM food.

As ALL the bread we eat comes from seed that has been genetically modified over the past 10,000 years, all the milk we drink from cows that have been selectivley bred for millenia and almost every vegetable is unrecognisable from its origins before man started selective breeding, then they cannot . They would starve.

So this ranting about GM is selective and hpocritical. That is not to support US big Agrobusiness who have a lot to answer for..

But hey, what's a bit of hypocrisy when you want to make a point..? Rather like multimillionaire party leaders telling us we should all be socialists when they owe some of their wealth to tax evasion and trust funds..
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby Johnboy » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:08 pm

"Public opinion stopped GM, says campaigner."
Yes John Walker that is very true but the reason the campaigner managed to do this was to dress every theory and tell the British Public that it was fact and that everything said by those anti-Science was true.
You know very well that the vast majority of statements made by the Organic Faction were not the truth! Mainly pure fiction!
Once again John Walker you appear to be crowing but I suspect that very soon the smile will disappear from your face and you and your cronies are in for a very large fall. It is fine to be over cocky but eventually the public will see through the cracks in the organic faction objections and there will be a public backlash.
Then who will be smiling?
JB.
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby John Walker » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:23 pm

Thanks for the predictable and wearisome diatribe, but as is clear from my posting of the two links, I was not seeking to 'crow' about anything, but merely, in the interests of balance, to try and keep the discussion going for those with the stamina to stay with this thread.

Tedious and increasingly personal attacks from those mounting one-man campaigns against organisations they disapprove of is becoming something of a bore.
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby Nature's Babe » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:36 pm

In agreement with you John Walker, have just posted another thread inspired by your post here. You have been polite and I believe i have too.
it would be nice if those with opposing views ceased these personal attacks
in the interests of peace in the forum.
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby alan refail » Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:59 am

Johnboy wrote: I have yet to see any comment from the organic faction but be assured it will follow shortly.


Strangely there has not been any reaction from the Soil Association so far, unless I've missed it.
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby Tony Hague » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:33 am

madasafish wrote:If people were serious about GM, they should put into practise what they preach and only eat non GM food.

As ALL the bread we eat comes from seed that has been genetically modified over the past 10,000 years, all the milk we drink from cows that have been selectivley bred for millenia and almost every vegetable is unrecognisable from its origins before man started selective breeding


I hesitate to enter into this argument, but I really dislike this tired and fallacious argument.

It is clear that pretty much all plant varieties grow for food crops have been bred or refined by manipulating the natural processes of cross pollination. Nobody is doubting this.

It is clear that potatoes and amaranth don't exchange genes in this way.

It is clearly not the case that the anti-GM arguments are opposed to any form of plant breeding, but rather that they are concerned about a new method of achieving exchange of genetic material, with opens much greater possibilities (perhaps both good and bad).

It is not necessarily a bad idea to argue that an entirely different method of crop breeding might be worthy of initial caution and different safeguards.
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby John Walker » Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:51 am

*FOR INFORMATION* (Please note that this does not cite potato breeding specifically, but it does give a reasonable summary of how broadly genetic modification/engineering is increasingly spreading into our ecosystem/human food chain.)

The Observer, 26 September 2010

GM food battle moves to fish as super-salmon nears US approval

Consumer groups fear green light for engineered species will bring environmental disaster to the oceans

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... tle-salmon
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby madasafish » Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:17 pm

It is not necessarily a bad idea to argue that an entirely different method of crop breeding might be worthy of initial caution and different safeguards

Well as we've been using AI on animals for years, that argument is surely about 50 years too late... And look at how effective the systems are to prevent us eating cloned animals..

I am sorry but my arguments stand. The opponents of GM may very well be correct but a one sided view - of only part of the issues at stake - and a refusal to make any personal sacrifices in eating habits tend to diminish their effectiveness as a campaigning force..

And going round tearing up GM crops reinforces my view of many of them... a view which may be shared by others...
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby Parsons Jack » Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:16 pm

I think it is easy to forget what it is like in large parts of the world.
We live in our mollycoddled little world with our gardens and allotments, farm shops, supermarkets etc, and have the choice whether to go organic or not. We can choose to grow our own or buy it at the supermarket if we are lazy. We can even buy food flown in from Africa to our supermarkets. Makes you think doesn't it when millions of people are starving in parts Africa!!
Food is in abundance for us, and if we grow too much we can give the rest away to friends, or just compost it.
Whereas for millions of others throughout the developing world, their whole existence is dependent upon drought, floods, wars, locusts and whatever else you can think of. They are lucky to get any food at all some days.
Do you think they care whether it is GM or organic or dented out of date tins that feed them?
Anything that might alleviate the suffering of others should be supported, not argued over ad infinitum by the overfed masses.
( Ducks down behind parapet quickly :) )
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I'm just off down the greenhouse. I won't be long...........

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