I have, like many others, I'm sure, been greatly worried by the revelations about contaminated manure.
I have always grown organically, but I'm now seriously wondering whether it wouldn't be best to abandon farmyard manure altogether and go for a vegan approach. I have found some useful tips on Plants for a Future. What I would like to ask is: has anyone on the forum any experience of these methods, and are they worth trying?
Vegan Organic
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I'm a vegetarian and I dont use any animal by products apart from my own pets droppings. I wouldn't even use pelleted chicken manure as i'm sure it comes from battery hens. I make compost from comfrey, leaf mould, shredded paper, rabbit poo and straw, bokashi, grass clippings, (probably in that order quantity wise), i have 2 bins at home and 5 at the allotment. It makes enough for my needs and i have never had problems with fertility. i have not yet tried green manures as i don't have the space, but that would be another alternative.
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Primrose
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I do try and roughly following the rules suggested but find the no digging approach a little strange. Over the period of a year, if one never bothered to dig at all, surely the soil will become very compacted, if only only due to the beating force of raindrops over a long period. How do the worms manage to pull all the compost and other mulches through if the surface of the soil isn't "roughed up" a little to produce cracks and crevices through which all the humus can be pulled down by worms?
Hi Primrose,
Although I do not use the no dig method fully and usually recommend double digging the no dig method is not without it's merits. You are worried about how the worms fare and I can assure you it makes no difference to them.
To put this into some perspective.
How many worm casts do you get on your lawn? The lawn has not been dug for many years probably, yet up they pop every night onto the surface to bask in the dew.
The only real way for soil to become compacted is if you keep walking on it. You do this on your lawn but the worms still come. With the no dig system you do not walk on the beds at all. Mulching prevents the surface drying out completely and the worms say 'yummee' to the mulch.
JB.
Although I do not use the no dig method fully and usually recommend double digging the no dig method is not without it's merits. You are worried about how the worms fare and I can assure you it makes no difference to them.
To put this into some perspective.
How many worm casts do you get on your lawn? The lawn has not been dug for many years probably, yet up they pop every night onto the surface to bask in the dew.
The only real way for soil to become compacted is if you keep walking on it. You do this on your lawn but the worms still come. With the no dig system you do not walk on the beds at all. Mulching prevents the surface drying out completely and the worms say 'yummee' to the mulch.
JB.
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Compo
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The clay on my patch becomes compacted withour walking on it, even with ample organic matter dug into it. So it has to be dug...............otherwise you will be planting carrots in virtual concrete
If I am not on the plot, I am not happy.........
Hi Compo,
Your quote:
The clay on my patch becomes compacted without walking on it.
Your clay is like all other clays and they simply dry out and become like concrete and are not compacted without a pressure, other than atmospheric pressure, being applied eg, walking on it!
I gardened on clay for enough years and in another thread addressed to Lurganspade I recommend the use of Sharp Sand to be applied to with the compost.
Before I left that garden I had 1.5 spits of workable soil so I do know that the advice I am passing on works.
JB.
Your quote:
The clay on my patch becomes compacted without walking on it.
Your clay is like all other clays and they simply dry out and become like concrete and are not compacted without a pressure, other than atmospheric pressure, being applied eg, walking on it!
I gardened on clay for enough years and in another thread addressed to Lurganspade I recommend the use of Sharp Sand to be applied to with the compost.
Before I left that garden I had 1.5 spits of workable soil so I do know that the advice I am passing on works.
JB.
I'm thinking of applying some of the advice here next year
http://www.vegansociety.com/people/life ... dening.php
No Im not a vegan or even a vegetarian yet but who knows
http://www.vegansociety.com/people/life ... dening.php
No Im not a vegan or even a vegetarian yet but who knows
"To forget how to dig the earth and to tend the soil is to forget ourselves."
- Gandhi
- Gandhi
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Geoff
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Bit bothered about this bit of the link :
"By digging the soil you will encourage much more rapid breakdown of organic matter. Thus, if you wish to maintain the soil fertility, you will become locked into a vicious circle of having to obtain more organic matter to feed the soil whilst putting in lots of effort through your digging in order to destroy that organic matter."
Surely if you want the organic matter to contribute to fertility it has to break down, if you want it for texture only and feed by other means that is another matter.
"By digging the soil you will encourage much more rapid breakdown of organic matter. Thus, if you wish to maintain the soil fertility, you will become locked into a vicious circle of having to obtain more organic matter to feed the soil whilst putting in lots of effort through your digging in order to destroy that organic matter."
Surely if you want the organic matter to contribute to fertility it has to break down, if you want it for texture only and feed by other means that is another matter.
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Compo
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I cannot imagine a potato patch that is not dug, either on planting or on harvesting, and mulched manure just dries out in summer, so it is dig every time for me, but often very lightly.
Compo
Compo
If I am not on the plot, I am not happy.........
Hi Greenman,
In the next village to me there is a Commune run by some 20+ Vegans. They use Humanure simply because they are too lazy to make compost. They have a 32 acre site and cultivate less than an acre. They have Comfrey galore but fail to cut it or use it.
Their site could be incredible but the quality of their produce is nothing short of abysmal.
Many years ago when there was a different set of Vegans living there they asked me to hold several seminars on growing and we thoroughly discussed ways of adapting other forms of gardening for Vegan use.
After the seminars they had 10 acres ploughed and the land fetched up to grow some wonderful vegetables so I know that is is possible 'the vegan way' but it is not a road that I would seriously follow myself. It is certainly not without merit.
I am with Geoff in what he fails to understand.
I find that to a great extent these website are written by people who generally have had insufficient experience of gardening as a whole.
Their world is not gardening but generally animal welfare with gardening as very much an afterthought.
JB.
In the next village to me there is a Commune run by some 20+ Vegans. They use Humanure simply because they are too lazy to make compost. They have a 32 acre site and cultivate less than an acre. They have Comfrey galore but fail to cut it or use it.
Their site could be incredible but the quality of their produce is nothing short of abysmal.
Many years ago when there was a different set of Vegans living there they asked me to hold several seminars on growing and we thoroughly discussed ways of adapting other forms of gardening for Vegan use.
After the seminars they had 10 acres ploughed and the land fetched up to grow some wonderful vegetables so I know that is is possible 'the vegan way' but it is not a road that I would seriously follow myself. It is certainly not without merit.
I am with Geoff in what he fails to understand.
I find that to a great extent these website are written by people who generally have had insufficient experience of gardening as a whole.
Their world is not gardening but generally animal welfare with gardening as very much an afterthought.
JB.