Hi Jenny,
The Lambs in question are grass reared on our super grassland the in-lamb Ewes may be fed a supplement but I can assure you not that much and the lambs may be fed milk supplements as part of their diet in their very formative stage. After that they are turned out to pasture and thereafter it is all grass and other natural things like young hedging sprouts and the like.
JB.
Food miles - it's not as obvious as you think
Moderators: KG Steve, Chantal, Tigger, peter, Chief Spud
Hi Madasafish,
It is a fact that the population have to eat and in order to get the necessary requirements eg, Food, it must be distributed. If you cannot see that a two litre engined vehicle carting a quarter of a ton not just 20 miles many many more miles than that. I know several people who regularly sell at Farmers Market and they travel at least 120 miles both ways.
They are meat producers and they come to our village Abattoir to have their animals slaughtered and some of them have to travel up to 80 miles in both directions because very few Abattoirs will slaughter small numbers. So I feel that rather than drivel I think you should try and research the implications behind what was said. You live in Stoke-on-Trent which is a very large conurbation and everything is probably within walking distance for you but here in the countryside we have to do endless driving to get anything. If I want to go to the local Hospital it is a 50 mile round trip, the Doctors an 18 mile round trip to the nearest Supermarket 24 miles round trip. So my Carbon Footprint will be greater than yours. With a Supermarket the food may well have to travel 200 miles but it's carbon footprint is far better per ton of food delivered. Remember the food has got to get to Stoke-on-Trent somehow otherwise most of your neighbours would starve and probably you as well.
JB.
It is a fact that the population have to eat and in order to get the necessary requirements eg, Food, it must be distributed. If you cannot see that a two litre engined vehicle carting a quarter of a ton not just 20 miles many many more miles than that. I know several people who regularly sell at Farmers Market and they travel at least 120 miles both ways.
They are meat producers and they come to our village Abattoir to have their animals slaughtered and some of them have to travel up to 80 miles in both directions because very few Abattoirs will slaughter small numbers. So I feel that rather than drivel I think you should try and research the implications behind what was said. You live in Stoke-on-Trent which is a very large conurbation and everything is probably within walking distance for you but here in the countryside we have to do endless driving to get anything. If I want to go to the local Hospital it is a 50 mile round trip, the Doctors an 18 mile round trip to the nearest Supermarket 24 miles round trip. So my Carbon Footprint will be greater than yours. With a Supermarket the food may well have to travel 200 miles but it's carbon footprint is far better per ton of food delivered. Remember the food has got to get to Stoke-on-Trent somehow otherwise most of your neighbours would starve and probably you as well.
JB.
-
madasafish
- KG Regular
- Posts: 372
- Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:51 pm
- Location: Stoke On trent
>Johnboy
And how far does food have to travel to get to a supermarket? Ege prawns from Thailand? blueberries from Poland, or beans from Malawi?
The example you quoted, is , I am afraid, totally meaningless.
As far as I am concerned, I live nearly 12 miles from the centre of Stoke.. and used to live in the country .. so am familiar with country travelling...
And how far does food have to travel to get to a supermarket? Ege prawns from Thailand? blueberries from Poland, or beans from Malawi?
The example you quoted, is , I am afraid, totally meaningless.
As far as I am concerned, I live nearly 12 miles from the centre of Stoke.. and used to live in the country .. so am familiar with country travelling...
Hi Madasafish,
There are thousands of normal items sold in supermarkets and normal shops yet you choose to deal in exceptions rather the everyday things. My guess is the best thing is for me to say yes to you a keep my thoughts to myself. Oh but one thought, I bet you were never top of the class at maths all those years ago!
JB.
There are thousands of normal items sold in supermarkets and normal shops yet you choose to deal in exceptions rather the everyday things. My guess is the best thing is for me to say yes to you a keep my thoughts to myself. Oh but one thought, I bet you were never top of the class at maths all those years ago!
JB.
-
fen not fen
- KG Regular
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:54 am
- Location: north lincolnshire
If supermarkets had regional distribution receiving regional foods it may add up, but they don't, they have a few enormous distribution centres to which the food travels to then be sent back out to the stores, sometimes in the same direction from which it came. So a Linc carrot bought in Tescos in Lincs will have been dug up, trucked to a distribution centre in the South then carted all the way back, that's assuming that they didn't fly it to Poland to be washed! If you live next door to Tescos you benefit from this as they only have a few big deliveries a day, rather than lots of smaller deliveries, but it may not be the best thing for the planet.
-
madasafish
- KG Regular
- Posts: 372
- Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:51 pm
- Location: Stoke On trent
John Said "Oh but one thought, I bet you were never top of the class at maths all those years ago"
Correct in one. How did you know?
I never was: I was always a poor second at Maths. I took my degree in Physics with Maths as my second subject because I knew I would never get a degree in Maths alone.
Correct in one. How did you know?
I never was: I was always a poor second at Maths. I took my degree in Physics with Maths as my second subject because I knew I would never get a degree in Maths alone.
I agree with Richard that you have to look carefully as so called research. As well as the sponsership issues, they sometimes have a very one dimensional approach to the subject in hand.
I did, however, read a well thought out and reasoned piece recently where the end point was that if everyone in the world lived to the average standards we expect to live to in the west (living space, car, foreign holiday..) we would need 4-5 planet earths to supply all the raw materials
Somewhat sobering and made me think about what I consume and where it comes from.
Sue
I did, however, read a well thought out and reasoned piece recently where the end point was that if everyone in the world lived to the average standards we expect to live to in the west (living space, car, foreign holiday..) we would need 4-5 planet earths to supply all the raw materials
Somewhat sobering and made me think about what I consume and where it comes from.
Sue
-
madasafish
- KG Regular
- Posts: 372
- Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:51 pm
- Location: Stoke On trent
> John
Thanks.
Don't worry: no offence meant or taken.
Wife says I have a hide which makes rhino skin looks like a baby's bottom!:-)
Thanks.
Don't worry: no offence meant or taken.
Wife says I have a hide which makes rhino skin looks like a baby's bottom!:-)
-
madasafish
- KG Regular
- Posts: 372
- Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:51 pm
- Location: Stoke On trent
>Sue
There is a very interesting (and very long - 52 pages) paper analysing the impact of speculation on commodity prices.. and froecasting a MAJOR (like a factor of 5-10) decline in prices when the bubble bursts...
If anyone wants to read it, it requires time and coffee..
http://www.venerosoassociates.net/Part% ... 205607.pdf
( Basically what it is saying is we are headed for a MAJOR econmic slowdown worldwide in the next 2-3 years ... in which case expect a major turndown in some people's lifestyles)
There is a very interesting (and very long - 52 pages) paper analysing the impact of speculation on commodity prices.. and froecasting a MAJOR (like a factor of 5-10) decline in prices when the bubble bursts...
If anyone wants to read it, it requires time and coffee..
http://www.venerosoassociates.net/Part% ... 205607.pdf
( Basically what it is saying is we are headed for a MAJOR econmic slowdown worldwide in the next 2-3 years ... in which case expect a major turndown in some people's lifestyles)
-
cevenol jardin
- KG Regular
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:27 pm
- Location: Cevennes Mountains, France
- Contact:
I was hoping there was a discussion of food miles on here. For my own rant.
Did anyone read news recently (Times)that Kenyan organic farmers are to have their Soil Association stamp of Organic Standard removed because of the airmiles flown to get the produce to the UK. While it is important to reduce activities that actually increase global warming refusing an organic standard to growers who meet it in poorer countries because the produce will be flown to richer ones is just hypocracy.
It seems as if us Western richer countries will stop at nothing and use any excuse possible to block fair trade with the poorer countries.
According to World bank figures Briton emits 9.4 tonnes of co2 compared with Africa's 0.3 tons so surely Africa should have the credit to export as much produce as far as they need to find a market.
I think the Soil Association should be ashamed of itself.
Did anyone read news recently (Times)that Kenyan organic farmers are to have their Soil Association stamp of Organic Standard removed because of the airmiles flown to get the produce to the UK. While it is important to reduce activities that actually increase global warming refusing an organic standard to growers who meet it in poorer countries because the produce will be flown to richer ones is just hypocracy.
It seems as if us Western richer countries will stop at nothing and use any excuse possible to block fair trade with the poorer countries.
According to World bank figures Briton emits 9.4 tonnes of co2 compared with Africa's 0.3 tons so surely Africa should have the credit to export as much produce as far as they need to find a market.
I think the Soil Association should be ashamed of itself.
Getting closer to the land www.masdudiable.com
Hi CJ,
I fully agree with your sentiments with regards to understanding of the situation. I heard a programme the other day which stated that we have encouraged
the Kenyans to produce these beans and now that they have, all of a sudden, we are telling them we no longer want them. In that programme it was stated that most of these crops a carried in the freight holds of scheduled aircraft and these aircraft will come here irrespectively. So in real terms they do not count as air miles in the same way as an aircraft specially chartered for the job would do.
If that makes sense to you!
As regards The Soil Association it is simply another demonstration of their Dogmatic approach to most things.
JB.
I fully agree with your sentiments with regards to understanding of the situation. I heard a programme the other day which stated that we have encouraged
the Kenyans to produce these beans and now that they have, all of a sudden, we are telling them we no longer want them. In that programme it was stated that most of these crops a carried in the freight holds of scheduled aircraft and these aircraft will come here irrespectively. So in real terms they do not count as air miles in the same way as an aircraft specially chartered for the job would do.
If that makes sense to you!
As regards The Soil Association it is simply another demonstration of their Dogmatic approach to most things.
JB.
-
Geoff
- KG Regular
- Posts: 5583
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:33 pm
- Location: Forest of Bowland
- Been thanked: 135 times
Yet another example of how the "Organic" label is stopping ordinary consumers getting good safe food.
There are two DIFFERENT worthy objectives:
1. Get people eating more fruit and vegetables that contain no additives or residues of the various "cides". To achieve this the food produced must be affordable. It doesn't matter what fertiliser is used, where it is produced, etc. it is only purity, availability and price that matters.
2. Looking after the environment by reducing carbon emissions, not polluting ground water with nitrogen, etc. this is where you can argue about types of fertiliser and air miles. Tax aviation fuel and let price take care of where things come from.
Need to find a sensible label like "Safe and Healthy" for good wholesome food to make it cheaper and so increase the take up by the majority rather than the politically correct minority.
There are two DIFFERENT worthy objectives:
1. Get people eating more fruit and vegetables that contain no additives or residues of the various "cides". To achieve this the food produced must be affordable. It doesn't matter what fertiliser is used, where it is produced, etc. it is only purity, availability and price that matters.
2. Looking after the environment by reducing carbon emissions, not polluting ground water with nitrogen, etc. this is where you can argue about types of fertiliser and air miles. Tax aviation fuel and let price take care of where things come from.
Need to find a sensible label like "Safe and Healthy" for good wholesome food to make it cheaper and so increase the take up by the majority rather than the politically correct minority.