No dig and other connundrums

[Tony Hague]

This no dig idea is all well and good, but ... If I spread cardboard on my plot, then 2" of my compost, it will guarantee a good blanket of weeds ! I see others suggest mulch should be 3" thick too - where on earth does the ordinary gardener obtain that much weed free compost ?

There are a number of bit of advice I see in the books that make no sense to me. One is accumulating enough material to build a hot compost heap in one go, rather than continually adding to a cool heap. How do you persuade the material you are accumulating not to start composting until you are ready for it ?

A bit like the advice to burn diseased plant material, e.g, blighted potato haulms. How ? Plant matter is 90% water, which does not burn easily. You could leave it about drying - but you don't want spores everywhere. You could put on top of an established fire - smothering it, making loads of smoke and and allowing rising hot air to carry the spores upward. Or ??

[Geoff]

You raise some interesting points – it would be nice to have a good old debate on the forum for a change.

I may have said this before. Digging has been with us for a long time, my archaeology isn’t good enough to say how long but I suspect with the first settled farmers 10,000 years ago. So for thousands of years people have been digging when they were probably living a subsistence life so why was it normal practice to do so much work when life was such a struggle? Probably because it was effective!

I have limited experience of trying no dig. Normally I grew potatoes by digging the bed in autumn or winter incorporating plenty of compost, in January I would cover it with clear polythene, plant in March and keep covered until potatoes showed then keep the sheet handy for late frost protection. For two years I’ve changed this a bit. Instead of digging I’ve covered the bed with the same amount of compost (didn’t check the depth but a big barrow load does 20 square feet) then sheeted it over, eventually planted through the compost and carried on as normal. I’ve noticed three things, lots of weeds in the compost layer, potatoes much harder to harvest with the ground solid, and a reduced yield. 2025 I’ll either revert to normal (energy permitting) or use manure instead of compost.

I agree with you that you can only compost what you have as you go along apart from periodically adding drier stuff, I usually add shredded paper on grass mowing day. Incidentally I’m not convinced by the usual description of carbon rich for dry, nitrogen rich for green. I’m pretty sure the chemical analysis is about the same apart from water content.

I do burn dodgy stuff but I have a large (1½ acre) garden and my bonfire site is far away from my vegetables so quite easy to keep it well away while it dries. Mind a good bonfire will burn water!

There are many myths as facts in gardening because you try something and it works so you stick with it but it was probably suitable weather that made it work.

[Colin2016]

Arnt the weeds smaller so easier to hoe off, unless you just let them grow like I did on one bed, but on the plus side plenty for the compost bin.

I collect from various sources for composting and never have a balanced mix I just keep topping it up as needed, temp gauge is usually in the red. Cut grass is always good for giving a quick heat boost or shredded wood for a slower longer heat.

Before I made my own compost I created a 4 foot square bed using bags from various shops never had weeds to worry about.

On a side note been using a hot bin at home which has produced seven plastic milk bottles full of compost juice which I am going to use on the plot next year.

[Westi]

I tried No Dig & it was not successful in the slightest. Cardboard dutifully cleared of tape & put down with about 3" of brand new topsoil. Plants put in & some sows & all looked fine, little seedlings appeared & then both just sulked & died. I tried again a couple of times with same results & then dismantled & although cardboard very wet it was intact & obviously stopped the progression of the roots. When I checked online there was no information on type of cardboard & I was told mine was the wrong cardboard...give me a break! And to add insult to injury the bed was covered in weeds & I couldn't hoe it as topsoil not deep enough & quite frankly life's too short to pull by hand when I have a perfectly fine hoe.

I'm happy for my heap not to be hot when I build it as constantly adding to it. I do add paper & stuff & give it a twizzle but leave it to do it's thing when I cover it when full, sometimes with a sprinkle of accelerator. Sides are lined in heavy duty black plastic & it is topped with this also when closed end of the summer it cooks itself & the ever present rats & mice do a nice job of aerating it. I have 4 compost areas so able to rotate & get a nicely prepared soil for topping up closed beds over winter with enough left for a top up of the other beds when the winter crops come out.

We aren't allowed to burn anything so my contaminated crops are soaked in trugs & the other badies like bind weed are cooked on the membrane paths & then bagged for the tip.

[AdrienneRobinson]

I’m a dedicated no-digger - I have been for a number of years now.
First myth buster - on already cultivated ground, a thin covering of compost mulch is all that’s needed per year, so definitely not the 2 or 3 inches mentioned.
Any weeds are easily hoed off.
Well rotted manure is the same as our own home made compost. No more compost or manure is needed than what would be needed in a dig system.
Soil structure is undisturbed leaving the soil organisms to do their thing, worms making their tunnels etc, thereby aerating the soil.
Trials are done annually comparing dug beds with no dig beds using the same amount of compost and growing the exact same veg, and in the vast majority of cases the yields are much higher.
No dig doesn’t mean never dig! It just means the annual digging of the soil is not done, holes still need to be dug for example when planting new bushes, fruit trees etc. Potatoes can be planted in holes made with a trowel. It really is so easy and definitely works.

[retropants]

Adrienne, I do the same in my tiny veg patch at home. I’ve never used cardboard, just adding compost and/or manure onto the surface. I don’t get many weeds - touch wood!

[Tony Hague]

I tried No Dig & it was not successful in the slightest. Cardboard dutifully cleared of tape & put down with about 3" of brand new topsoil. Plants put in & some sows & all looked fine, little seedlings appeared & then both just sulked & died. I tried again a couple of times with same results & then dismantled & although cardboard very wet it was intact & obviously stopped the progression of the roots.

Interesting - I was thinking about the reverse problem. I have plenty of cardboard, I could order in some manure. In years where I have managed to spread manure in autumn, my clay soil has been much easier to work in spring, visually improved by it. The worms do seem to do work in incorporating it. But if I spread cardboard first to suppress weeds - if it works, it will probably impede the worms in doing their bit too. And there is no way on earth cardboard will stop the horse's tails growing through !

I may be better adding the manure directly to the soil, and composting the card as I usually do.

[Westi]

I really like to apply manure on closed beds & then cover them with black or clear plastic I collect & re-use. This is my ideal as when I uncover it the worms seem to have been very happy & really break down the soil to a good depth so just a quick rake has it ready to use. I do tend to roll up the cover, not removing it completely to allow any weeds to show, then cover again which kills off those pesky weeds so seeds/plants have a good start.

Unfortunately my well rotted organic milking cow manure is no longer available as the farmer has scaled right back due to the railway works as the line goes right through his fields & disturbed his milking herd so he is renting fields out of the area currently & it's not aged yet; he used what he had on his closed fields. The horse manure dropped off on the plot is not broken down enough to use & where they dump it is full of bindweed. I mistakingly asked online what bought in bags of manure were best as I considered getting some delivered to the plot, but it just opened a big debate with conflicting experiences of products. So it will be my compost & appropriate sprinkle of what feed will match the intended crop & I will cover them as usual.

[Tony Hague]

I really like to apply manure on closed beds & then cover them with black or clear plastic I collect & re-use. This is my ideal as when I uncover it the worms seem to have been very happy & really break down the soil to a good depth so just a quick rake has it ready to use. I do tend to roll up the cover, not removing it completely to allow any weeds to show, then cover again which kills off those pesky weeds so seeds/plants have a good start.

I like this. It makes sense to me. Put whatever weed seed lurks in your manure / compost underneath the suppressing barrier, not on top ! I ordered a trailer load of manure from my usual supplier yesterday, so I may try an area with this treatment.

Moreover, so good to have ideas from someone who has actually tried it - most of the internet seems to be full of people blindly repeating things they've seen or read, rather than validated by personal experience.

[AdrienneRobinson]

Just a heads up - a layer of cardboard is only necessary when the area is very weedy or when making a new bed perhaps on grass. Otherwise just a thinnish layer of compost or manure is all that’s needed once a year.

[Tony Hague]

Now, elsewhere on social media in comments on a post about no-dig, there was a debate about the wisdom of using corrugated cardboard in the garden or composting. Obviously there are some contaminants to be avoided - plasticised glossy board, and hot melt glue / staples / sticky tape. But what about recycled board. Cardboard is a long way down the recycling chain, so it quite probably has microplastics from tape / glossy board, various glues, possibly chemicals like BPA from thermal printer paper (till receipts, package labels). Thoughts ?

[Westi]

Interesting Tony, I expect there could be contaminates considering the number of processes cardboard goes through & I have seen the odd conveyor belt thing full of all colourful sorts on TV.

I've settled myself into the live & let live side regarding no dig, dig or whatever else might pop up in the future. Growers are adults & can make their own decisions on how they wish to grow & this should be respected, they usually have their own logic or experience. BTW Charles Dowding did not invent this style of gardening, it was some head gardener at a big house in 1946 who wrote a book quickly followed by another guy in 1948, probs both did not have cardboard available to throw on the garden even though it was available, as little was bought that required packaging.