No dig?

[retropants]

I am taking up a hardstanding to reveal the soil (quite stony!) underneath, would this be suitable to cultivate as a no-dig bed? My back can't take hours of digging, so I've been reading the about the no dig method, and it sounds like it should work. It's only a small area approx 2.5 x 5 metres, and will be my only veg growing area.

[Colin2016]

Yes defiantly.. Reading Charles Dowding latest book which explains the reason why it works.

[Primrose]

I see the merits of no dig but can't help feeling in your case Retropqnts, after probably decades of having had no exposure to daylight, the soil under yiur hard standing might benefit from some light digging and exposure of some of it to daylight and fresh air. Certwinky if Qi was plsanning any rooted crops like parsnips or carrots I'd try to ruffle the surface up a little.

It may depend how much manure or compost you!re eventually able to pile onto the surface, intuitively If it were my patch I would want to give it the benefit of some fresh air and daylight first. Charles Downing always seems to base his No dig theories on land that has previously been grassed rwther than concreted which would seem to me to be a much healthier starting point. After one geowing season, I imagine No Dig would be easier and more beneficial to implement.

Others may disagree of course, and the condition of your back may be the deciding factor. Perhaps lightly dig half it as an experiment if your back will allow and then you can make a comparison?

[Colin2016]

Suggest you ask Charles Dowding direct.

[retropants]

Thanks Colin & Primrose, I was thinking similarly. Where we are breaking the old concrete up, it is making a lot of small stones and bits, which will need removing. I'll do this, and loosen everything at the same time. Then leave it uncovered for a while, and put a thick layer of compost/manure early next year.

[Geoff]

I don't like raised beds but this sounds like a prime site for a never dug raised bed. You could probably just about manage it as a single bed if you've got space for a path round it.

[retropants]

I'm used to having 4 huge allotment plots in one block, so this will be interesting! This year I was confined to veg in pots and grow bags. Some did really well, others not so much. Its a huge down shift from what I am used to, but needs must!

[Colin2016]

Not sure if you know so apologies if repeating the obvious:
You do not need a border for your raised bed
You can walk on the compost
You can plant into the compost straight away no need to leave it for six months.

"Then leave it uncovered for a while, and put a thick layer of compost/manure early next year."
Wondering what you hope to benefit from doing this?

[retropants]

Colin, I'm an old hand, but always learning! Had an allotment for nearly 30 years.
I am leaving it open, as primrose suggested, as it's been completely covered for over 25 years, probably more like 40. The composted manure layer is me beginning the no dig project, add on top and let the worms do their thing. I have a lot of containers that I grew veg in this year, I'll be tipping that compost in there too.
I won't be adding borders, as the concrete around the edge is quite sound. Once I have removed the stones, I will try not to dig it again. Although almost 30 years of digging will be a hard habit to break!

[Primrose]

Retropants - this new way of gardening is certainly going to be a challenge and I sympathise with your frustrations, especially with you having been a digger and an allotment plot holder for so many years.
I guess one of the challenges - apart from the vastly reduced space, is going to be working out which crops you must absolutely grow if you want to walk out of your kitchen door to be able to pick fresh produce. .
Courgettes for example are space grabbers, but can you go into a supermarket and buy courgettes at exactly the size you want, and perhaps climbing French beans, which again are hard to buy commercially at exactly the right degree of size and tenderness? Decisions, decisions!

if you're still going to supplement your growing area with additional containers, you might still be able to try some marginal crop rotation but this is going to depend on levels of shade and sunlight isn't it? Will you still have space for a compost heap somewhere in your small garden, or is "in situ in the ground" composting something you will have to consider to ensure your veggie leftovers arn't going to be wasted? In my first vegetable growing area, in a tiny maisonette garden I was forced to experiment with digging this into holes in borders inbetween plants and in four years I was surprised how greatly the soil became enriched during that period.

Good luck anyway and keep us updated. I'm excited for you that at least you're getting a small veggie growing area back.

[Colin2016]

What ever you do Retropants will work as long as you enjoy it.

There is an 80+ chap like you that digs his double plot and would not have it any other way.

[Monika]

Retropants, as I am sure you will have heard me say, six years ago we reduced our large allotment to half of it (after cultivating it for 35 years!) and nearly two years ago gave it up altogether. So we are now growing our vegetables in a space roughly 10' by 20'. And it is going surprisingly well! I concentrate on vegetables which can be picked in succession like tenderstem broccoli, broad beans and climbing French beans (we would grow peas but our large numerous house sparrows destroy the plants), beetroot, a few leeks, garlic and shallots (the latter two last us almost 12 months). I tried kale this year but the plants were too large and took up too much room, so next year I will increase the broccoli numbers. Early potatoes and courgettes are grown in large pots.
The ground is now completely cleared and dug (some parts had phacelia on it the last few weeks). It will be soon covered with manure and black plastic until next February or so. Leaving it uncultivated over winter may seem a waste but I would rather have good summer crops and maintain a good crop rotation. We do grow salad crops in the small greenhouse.

[retropants]

Thankyou For all those pieces of useful info! I do have a Dalek compost bin, but I might try the burying waste technique as well, as the bin won't be ready for at least another season. I won't need to grow courgettes, as neither of us like them! Although I will probably sow some seeds for my brother to grow in a pot, as he does like them. French beans definitely, I managed to get some cobra seeds during lock down. It took 8 weeks for them to arrive and the snails had all the plants that I grew, and I didn't get a single bean, but I will try again this year. For me, garlic & leeks, peppers, carrots, tomatoes and cucumbers are a must, and I'm going to try little gem lettuce this year, only ever grown loose leaf or iceberg types over the years, with lollo rosso being my favourite. I also have strawberries in pots, a large blackberry thicket behind the greenhouse (tricky to harvest!) but I will miss raspberries, as I just don't have the space for them. I also have a cooking apple cordon in a pot, which will be moving house next year into its final (enormous) pot.

[Stephen]

When we got our annex (the extra half-plot) we decided to try "no dig".
My feelings about "no dig" are these:-
- no dig does not mean no heavy work. Shifting soil and manure about requires plenty of manual labour.
- it is good for shallow rooted stuff. Our spinach is most productive, the beetroot have done well (as they have in other locations of the plot), lettuce has done well too.
- I think it dries out more quickly. We have a layer of woven landscaping material with soil & manure creating beds on top. I'll recreate these over the winter as I plan to dtrip everything off, dig out anything growing underneath, then make fewer but bigger, deeper temporary beds back on top.
- weeds grow through & around the weed supressing membrane (this should not be a problem from under the concrete).

I don't regard "no dig" as a panacea but as just a different approach.