Worms or lack thereof.

[AdeTheSpade]

I'm sorry farmer jon, but I'm not convinced that weedol or anything else for that matter isn't lethal to something - I believe it's been very cleverly marketed.
When I started on my first allotment, joining a friend, someone had 'kindly' used glyphosate based weedkiller to 'help us out' with the mass of weeds that had grown while it hadn't been tended. Over the 3 or so years that I helped to work that plot, I don't remember seeing a single worm!!

[Nature's Babe]

Also if you don't dig and just mulch regularly then annual weed seeds get buried too deep to germinate and you are more likely to get random useful plants from seeds tossed into the compost with the vegetasble waste. I am in agreement with Ade re farmer jons comments. I think worms and other creatures in the soil food web are invaluable they help build soil structure, fertility, and pest and disease resistence. when planting seedlings with a trowel I always disturb many worms large and small. I also love to see the fruiting bodies of fungi throughout my garden, knowing that underground the michorrhizal filaments are feeding and watering the veg for me symbiotically.
I even had field mushrooms sprouting in the hens enclosure this week, sadly they scratched them up LOL

[Tony Hague]

Hah - you must be better at making mulch than me NB. I mulched generously around my apple trees with compost from my heap when we were expecting drought , now I have complete ground cover with calendulas and some yellow flowered stuff that DS grew from a free pack of bee attracting flower seed. It might be better for the trees if I removed it, but I haven't the heart. It is coming out before it all sets seed again though !

[oldherbaceous]

Afternoon Tony, you didn't ever meet a young fellow at Silsoe, called Kelvin White did you. He was self employed, and used to do engineering jobs, he was always making all sorts of funny gadgets, soil testers and the like.

I also did a little building work there myself, some retaining walls below field level, to monitor water run off....also other sorts of bits and pieces....

[Beryl]

I agree worms are invaulable to gardening that's if you are lucky enough to have them. As you all probably know I add copious amounts of well rotted manure/compost to my plots all of which are full of the compost worms but as to the fat plump earth worms I have not seen more than the odd one for years. This I feel is down to the number of badgers, and possibly the foxes we have on the site.

Beryl.

[AdeTheSpade]

Goodness Beryl, I didn't know that badgers and foxes would eat worms - what a shame for you that you hardly get them on your plot. I must be very lucky to have so many, and also, presumably then, no badgers or foxes near me, thankfully!!

[alan refail]

Hi Ade

Though omnivorous, badgers eat mainly earthworms, insects and grubs. Foxes eat almost anything.

[Nature's Babe]

Also moles eat worms, I wrote this poem

Mole.

Considering where he's been
mole is quite sleek and clean.
Nose sharp, an arrow head
with a keen sense of smell

guides him through the dark.
His token eyes are pinheads
his dense fur, so soft,so brown
is almost black. His pink

hands, are scoop shape, five
long white claws, to scrape
and toil, tunnel through soil
in search of worms, he churns

it to a fine tilth. The mole
is muscular and fat, he must
have eaten many juicy worms
before he ran into our cat.

We have moles, badgers and foxes but still have lots of worms. More likely harmful chemicals / weedkillers cause the worms demise as Ade mentioned earlier in this thread.

[Beryl]

I'm sorry NB I can't agree with you on this one. Do you have badger sets in your garden? I think not.
They are extremely damaging and on the allotments have a regular supply of food. When the artifical set was orginally built the 'so called badger consultant's idea' was that we should throw surplus fruit etc. over to keep them off our plots. How daft is that. Needless to say they had other ideas, found their own homes and now eat what they like.
Beryl.

[farmer jon]

When I started on my first allotment, joining a friend, someone had 'kindly' used glyphosate based weedkiller to 'help us out' with the mass of weeds that had grown while it hadn't been tended. Over the 3 or so years that I helped to work that plot, I don't remember seeing a single worm!!

you seem very quick to blame glyphosate for your lack of worms. the presence of worms in soil depends on a number of things such as soil type,humus content ,ph,drainage etc. all my plots are manured in turn with large quantities of well rotted cow manure dug in by the traditional method of trenching.they are treated with various fertilisers & I can assure you that they are full of worms. the annual spraying does not upset my worms who are as happy as the proverbial pig in muck.

[Johnboy]

Hi Ade,
When my plot was becoming over grown and due to circumstances beyond my control I could no longer maintain the area I previously managed I resorted to using Glyphosate to clear the Nettles , Docks, Couch grass and Bur Dock. This needed two applications to achieve my aim. The plot was then offered to a person as an allotment and accepted. The worms in evidence when the plot was dug was staggering and I feel sure that was because previous to its run-down the plot had always, like Farmer Jons plot, been liberally manured and the soil in good fettle. The produce that has come from that plot in the last two full seasons has been amazing.
It is so easy to blame herbicides, and pesticides in general for the demise of everything but I would suggest that if the humus content of the soil is low there will be no worms or very few.
I doubt that you have any idea what occurred on the plot that you inherited but because there was a low worm count you have taken the easy way out.
To my mind you must find ways of improving the worm count and to incorporate as much compost and manure as you possibly can and keep on doing so and that is for starters.
JB.

[Nature's Babe]

Our garden is pretty well fenced now but we have had badgers dig occasionally and I agree it can be very destructive. Foxes leap the fence too occasionally.

I suggest folk read the independent research and make up their own minds, there is a lot out there, here are a few ....

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 3503003060

http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/reports/i ... hosate.pdf

http://permaculture.com.au/online/artic ... et-species

http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Actives/glyphosa.htm

[alan refail]

Hi NB

I looked at the first of your links, but, since I was asked to pay US $ 41.95 to read it I gave up on your links

[Nature's Babe]

I think the others are free Alan. I believe all research should be free and open for the benefit of all humanity, but unfortunately the profit motive comes into the equasion as always - perhaps we should all support http://www.freeworldcharter.org/en

[Nature's Babe]

There is an abstract and this basic nformation about the research IS there on the initial first link to read free, it is only if you wish to read the full report that you are asked to pay.

As is usual with a much research done today there is a charge to see the actual research papers / proof and methodology referred to in the abstract to recoup costs.