Johnboy, the farmer you talk of was hardly representatative of organic farmers generally though, was he? I think you've told me before he'd won a load of money and fancied himself as a farmer but obviously had no idea. Organic farmers couldn't be so negligent as they'd soon go out of business.
I'm sorry for your experiences but I've also heard many tales of organic growers having their produce damaged by drifting weedkiller spray and contaminated with GM. ALL growers need to be considerate of other growers. You can't condemn all organic growers because of your bad experiences with one, especially one who wasn't even actually organic, just an idiot.
Natural Whitefly Control
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Jenny Green
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(Formerly known as 'Organic Freak')
Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed.
Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed.
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alan refail
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Johnboy
I assumed posters were talking greenhouse whitefly, which are a different thing from cabbage whitefly outdoors.
Jenny
Just to put the record straight, I am a home gardener and 100% Organic. As for "thinking outside the box", I have no objection to that, just so long as you don't get so far away that you lose sight of the box.
Cofion gorau - Best regards
Alan
I assumed posters were talking greenhouse whitefly, which are a different thing from cabbage whitefly outdoors.
Jenny
Just to put the record straight, I am a home gardener and 100% Organic. As for "thinking outside the box", I have no objection to that, just so long as you don't get so far away that you lose sight of the box.
Cofion gorau - Best regards
Alan
Cred air o bob deg a glywi, a thi a gei rywfaint bach o wir (hen ddihareb Gymraeg)
Believe one tenth of what you hear, and you will get some little truth (old Welsh proverb)
Believe one tenth of what you hear, and you will get some little truth (old Welsh proverb)
Hi Jenny,
Well he was a nothing and that was the trouble and yes I mailed you a few years ago
(sounds awful 'a few years ago') and told you but the point I am trying to put over is that a very great percentage of Organic Gardeners have not got the level of competence to be organic yet they carry on regardless and in the end do every bit of damage to other peoples crops as any spraying accident. As regards GM this is invalid in UK at present but we will have to face up to it shortly.
It is a very fine ideal to be organic through conscience and have nothing to do with chemicals and I am sure that a great many people would like to follow suit but they see that if a pest is going to destroy their crop they do something about it whereas those who do not have any idea how to control the situation but still insist they will remain chemical free generally do nothing to control the situation and to me that is against the ethical code of gardeners. I can remember when we were all simply gardeners and generally chemicals were never used unless there was something that would affect your neighbouring gardeners then they were. It has only come about with the distinction made when organic gardening came about.
Potato Blight is rife in some areas and I am afraid that I blame it's rapid spread to organic gardeners who will not even try to control it. Also we have these so called 'experts' that suggest that you should compost the potato haulm instead of burning it.
Say what you will but since the organic gardeners have been about plant hygiene has almost disappeared.
Weeding seems to be a thing of the past and the hoe in organic circles almost unknown.
We have seem some awful market gardens featured it the magazine with so many weeds as to say that the crop is unidentifiable in the name of 'Organics'.
JB.
Be a Pragmatic Gardener and think for yourself!
Well he was a nothing and that was the trouble and yes I mailed you a few years ago
(sounds awful 'a few years ago') and told you but the point I am trying to put over is that a very great percentage of Organic Gardeners have not got the level of competence to be organic yet they carry on regardless and in the end do every bit of damage to other peoples crops as any spraying accident. As regards GM this is invalid in UK at present but we will have to face up to it shortly.
It is a very fine ideal to be organic through conscience and have nothing to do with chemicals and I am sure that a great many people would like to follow suit but they see that if a pest is going to destroy their crop they do something about it whereas those who do not have any idea how to control the situation but still insist they will remain chemical free generally do nothing to control the situation and to me that is against the ethical code of gardeners. I can remember when we were all simply gardeners and generally chemicals were never used unless there was something that would affect your neighbouring gardeners then they were. It has only come about with the distinction made when organic gardening came about.
Potato Blight is rife in some areas and I am afraid that I blame it's rapid spread to organic gardeners who will not even try to control it. Also we have these so called 'experts' that suggest that you should compost the potato haulm instead of burning it.
Say what you will but since the organic gardeners have been about plant hygiene has almost disappeared.
Weeding seems to be a thing of the past and the hoe in organic circles almost unknown.
We have seem some awful market gardens featured it the magazine with so many weeds as to say that the crop is unidentifiable in the name of 'Organics'.
JB.
Be a Pragmatic Gardener and think for yourself!
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DJmrcmb
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- Location: Morecambe, Lancashire
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Just for the record, I never once claimed that 'Pinguicula' was the cure to all ills i.e. Whitefly. Though given by the amount of Whitefly that was stuck it I'd give it the thumbs up 
But in addition to other methods. If it keeps their numbers down I'm all for it. But as I said, I only have one plant at the moment, so I can't give an results as to how successful it would or wouldn't be.
Pinguicula is basically living flypaper, though rather than having a load of whitefly carcasses to dispose of at least they does some good. Meaning they go back into the plant.
We do use other things to keep Whitefly numbers down. We do use soap sprays and other things, though you have to keep doing it every once in a while.
If we have an infestation we don't just leave it. We can't. It has to be dealt with as quickly as possible but that doesn't mean having to rely on harmful chemicals.
Oh, how come? Does that mean they just leave them to run wild? I certainly don't do that.
A weed is a weed, in that it shouldn't be growing there. I don't understand
I was talking about greenhouse whitefly yes. That's where my Pinguicula currently resides. Though you can grow them outdoors but they need to be brought in during the Winter months.
But in addition to other methods. If it keeps their numbers down I'm all for it. But as I said, I only have one plant at the moment, so I can't give an results as to how successful it would or wouldn't be.
Pinguicula is basically living flypaper, though rather than having a load of whitefly carcasses to dispose of at least they does some good. Meaning they go back into the plant.
We do use other things to keep Whitefly numbers down. We do use soap sprays and other things, though you have to keep doing it every once in a while.
If we have an infestation we don't just leave it. We can't. It has to be dealt with as quickly as possible but that doesn't mean having to rely on harmful chemicals.
Weeding seems to be a thing of the past and the hoe in organic circles almost unknown
Oh, how come? Does that mean they just leave them to run wild? I certainly don't do that.
A weed is a weed, in that it shouldn't be growing there. I don't understand
I assumed posters were talking greenhouse whitefly, which are a different thing from cabbage whitefly outdoors
I was talking about greenhouse whitefly yes. That's where my Pinguicula currently resides. Though you can grow them outdoors but they need to be brought in during the Winter months.
Hi DJ,
I appreciate that my previous posting regards Organic Practitioners is probably totally unfair on the Organic members of this forum. The reason I posted so was to draw to your attention that what "Organic" means to an awful lot of people.
The people around here seem to have it fixed in their brains that you prepare the soil plant your plants and mother nature does the rest.
Now you and I know that this is totally wrong so where has the fad come from.
I have visited more than 12 organic premises in the last year and none of them has weeded or done anything past the planting out stage. Needless to say they are not reaping any rewards.
I went to the Milton Keynes area (120 miles from here) and spoke to some allotmenteers and they came up with the same answer. Two middle aged girls told me that they didn't weed because the weeds helped to conserve water and they had not had to water like some of the others. I suggested that mulching would not only do the same but would feed their crop at the same time. At that time they had Carrots that were only discernible because I know what to look for but to an untrained eye you would not have known they were there. When asked if they thought it was unfair to their neighbours to be inflicted by their weeds over their plot and the answer was "if they are going to hoe it doesn't make any difference. "
Thank the good lord I am not their neighbour!!
It is lazy and sloppy gardening without a thought to neighbouring plots and there was no plant hygiene
in evidence. It is therefore quite mindless and very very selfish.
I am sure that there are no organic people like this on the forum but this is the impression I am getting.
JB.
I appreciate that my previous posting regards Organic Practitioners is probably totally unfair on the Organic members of this forum. The reason I posted so was to draw to your attention that what "Organic" means to an awful lot of people.
The people around here seem to have it fixed in their brains that you prepare the soil plant your plants and mother nature does the rest.
Now you and I know that this is totally wrong so where has the fad come from.
I have visited more than 12 organic premises in the last year and none of them has weeded or done anything past the planting out stage. Needless to say they are not reaping any rewards.
I went to the Milton Keynes area (120 miles from here) and spoke to some allotmenteers and they came up with the same answer. Two middle aged girls told me that they didn't weed because the weeds helped to conserve water and they had not had to water like some of the others. I suggested that mulching would not only do the same but would feed their crop at the same time. At that time they had Carrots that were only discernible because I know what to look for but to an untrained eye you would not have known they were there. When asked if they thought it was unfair to their neighbours to be inflicted by their weeds over their plot and the answer was "if they are going to hoe it doesn't make any difference. "
Thank the good lord I am not their neighbour!!
It is lazy and sloppy gardening without a thought to neighbouring plots and there was no plant hygiene
in evidence. It is therefore quite mindless and very very selfish.
I am sure that there are no organic people like this on the forum but this is the impression I am getting.
JB.
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oldherbaceous
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I think it must just be said, that a lot of the weedy plots around are not just organicaly run.
I know of quite a few that are sprayed at the beggining of the season, planted up, and then very little hoeing if any done afterwards.
These too create a real problem with weed seeds.
I do agree with Johnboy about the weeds seeding being a real problem, but i think this is an organic and a non organic problem. And very thoughtless of the oweners.
I know of quite a few that are sprayed at the beggining of the season, planted up, and then very little hoeing if any done afterwards.
These too create a real problem with weed seeds.
I do agree with Johnboy about the weeds seeding being a real problem, but i think this is an organic and a non organic problem. And very thoughtless of the oweners.
Kind Regards, Old Herbaceous.
There's no fool like an old fool.
There's no fool like an old fool.
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DJmrcmb
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I don't understand. If you don't remove the weeds they just take over.
We've just spend the last month removing all the weeds from and it looks much better; It's now ready for planting the veg. We can't do that if it's full of weeds.
I always thought Organic meant gardening using natural ways and without using chemicals. But that doesn't mean letting everything run wild; I wouldn't have thought you'd get much in return afterwards.
I don't think even we could claim to be completely organic because occasionally we have to completely clean out the greenhouse, for hygiene reasons as much as anything else. We did this only recently and it does look a lot better. Managed to get rid of all the stuff round the back of the staging and got the windows nice and clean.
The thing with gardening is you've got to look after it. Especially when growing food, organic or not.
We've just spend the last month removing all the weeds from and it looks much better; It's now ready for planting the veg. We can't do that if it's full of weeds.
I always thought Organic meant gardening using natural ways and without using chemicals. But that doesn't mean letting everything run wild; I wouldn't have thought you'd get much in return afterwards.
I don't think even we could claim to be completely organic because occasionally we have to completely clean out the greenhouse, for hygiene reasons as much as anything else. We did this only recently and it does look a lot better. Managed to get rid of all the stuff round the back of the staging and got the windows nice and clean.
The thing with gardening is you've got to look after it. Especially when growing food, organic or not.