Thanks everybody for the continuing responses, very interesting.
Johnboy, I think I am with you in that while mypex is good as clearing the surface weeds, the nasty guys tend to find a way through... eventually. Also, black plastic is much faster acting and is ruthless in cutting off all the things plants need to survive: light, air, water. As previously noted, I am worried by longer term damage we might be causing, essentially because we are robbing the soil of the three elements that it needs, too. I don't want to destroy the soil in order to save it, if you see what I mean, but might be doing that.
Twitch/couch is a definite menace, though. At the end of the summer, I tried spraying a whole bed with Roundup. I tried it two ways: diluting the solution, but apply it over several successive days, to ensure that some of the weed killer would get deep down into the roots and didn't just kill the tops; and using the recommended dilution. Both killed the tops off, but quite a lot of the root runs survived and I am having to dig them out by hand - which is hard word, but very satisfying. Interestingly, another plot holder sprayed earlier in the year and completely destroyed their infestation right down to the roots. I'm guessing the earlier you apply, the better the result.
Encouragingly, after an article in the local parish magazine, we gave away five plots at the weekend, so are beginning to fill up. What encouraged me most of all is that two people opted, very sensibly in my opinion, for plots covered in brambles, since these smother most other weeds and, once they are dug out, weed growth is restrained. All you need is a brush cutter and a mattock and you can get rid of everything.
Also of interest to me, somebody that believes 10 square rods is the right size of plot, three of the five wanted our smaller 36 square metre plots - and even viewed these as relatively intimidating!!! But fashions are changing.
Mypex or black plastic?
Moderators: KG Steve, Chantal, Tigger, peter
Dear Barry,
I am intrigued to find out the three essential elements that black polythene would deprive the soil of. One year should be the longest period of cover and one year in the life of things is but a flash in time and I would suggest no harm would be done to the soil at all.
If you want my personal view which is that the council should have cleared that land with glyphosate and then mole ploughed thoroughly and then ploughed and rotovated the area and then offered it to you and your fellow allotmenteers and the whole picture would now be entirely different.
Sincerely,
JB.
I am intrigued to find out the three essential elements that black polythene would deprive the soil of. One year should be the longest period of cover and one year in the life of things is but a flash in time and I would suggest no harm would be done to the soil at all.
If you want my personal view which is that the council should have cleared that land with glyphosate and then mole ploughed thoroughly and then ploughed and rotovated the area and then offered it to you and your fellow allotmenteers and the whole picture would now be entirely different.
Sincerely,
JB.
Hi Johnboy,
I completely agree with you regarding the preparation of the original allotment site.
However, we are where we are, which is not a great place. This afternoon, I spent two hours trying to clear a three metre long strip along my fence line, which was just two feet wide. It took so long because the ground was damp and choked with twitch. I've got square metres of this stuff to clear currently under either mypex or black plastic, but I fear that clearing it like this over winter won't be a great success. I did spray in the very late summer, but lost just the top growth. Had it had time to grow back, I could have sprayed it again and I suspect the results would have been somewhat different.
I am encouraged to hear that you don't believe that a year under some form of sheeting will actually do any long term damage to the soil. I'm still not persuaded that I am doing any long term harm to the soil, although could be persuaded that I am wrong if somebody could give me some concrete evidence that I am. In my experience, soil is very forgiving, especially when you start to work it and dig in manure.
Regards
Barry
I completely agree with you regarding the preparation of the original allotment site.
However, we are where we are, which is not a great place. This afternoon, I spent two hours trying to clear a three metre long strip along my fence line, which was just two feet wide. It took so long because the ground was damp and choked with twitch. I've got square metres of this stuff to clear currently under either mypex or black plastic, but I fear that clearing it like this over winter won't be a great success. I did spray in the very late summer, but lost just the top growth. Had it had time to grow back, I could have sprayed it again and I suspect the results would have been somewhat different.
I am encouraged to hear that you don't believe that a year under some form of sheeting will actually do any long term damage to the soil. I'm still not persuaded that I am doing any long term harm to the soil, although could be persuaded that I am wrong if somebody could give me some concrete evidence that I am. In my experience, soil is very forgiving, especially when you start to work it and dig in manure.
Regards
Barry
Hi Barry,
When I first came to live here the organic way was to clear land especially of twitch grass was with pigs.That turned out to be the biggest mistake of my life. It is true pigs will eat twitch and they will rout for the roots but as they chew they are forever allowing small pieces of root out the corners of their mouths. These small particles of root all managed to grow and the situation was getting worse by the day. The pork was divine!
There was no such thing as glyphosate at that time and black polythene was not known to me. The area I was trying to clear was six acres! I did find the forerunner to glyphosate and bit by bit the land was eventually cleared. It was but a few months later I learned about heavy duty polythene sheeting used by the building industry as damp proofing membrane. Since that time I have used HDP to clear land and to cover up land that I was not using. I still use Glyphosate on non productive land and will use Glyphosate brushed individually on persistent perennial weeds interrupting with what I am growing but only very occasionally.
I cannot find any possible reason for not using HD black Polythene to clear your new plot of weeds.
Sincerely,
JB.
When I first came to live here the organic way was to clear land especially of twitch grass was with pigs.That turned out to be the biggest mistake of my life. It is true pigs will eat twitch and they will rout for the roots but as they chew they are forever allowing small pieces of root out the corners of their mouths. These small particles of root all managed to grow and the situation was getting worse by the day. The pork was divine!
There was no such thing as glyphosate at that time and black polythene was not known to me. The area I was trying to clear was six acres! I did find the forerunner to glyphosate and bit by bit the land was eventually cleared. It was but a few months later I learned about heavy duty polythene sheeting used by the building industry as damp proofing membrane. Since that time I have used HDP to clear land and to cover up land that I was not using. I still use Glyphosate on non productive land and will use Glyphosate brushed individually on persistent perennial weeds interrupting with what I am growing but only very occasionally.
I cannot find any possible reason for not using HD black Polythene to clear your new plot of weeds.
Sincerely,
JB.
Hi Barry,
For a good clean clearance it is best to use hd Black and hd Clear polythene.
If you use hdb to clear the existing growth and then remove hdb and allow the plot to become well rained on and then use hdc to germinate the seeds left on the surface and allow them to grow well and before they get a chance to flower and seed put the hdb back and kill these off as well. Sadly this process is quite a long one but well worth it in the end.
I would suggest clearing one third of your plot the hard way to give you room for some crops in late spring this year and use the polythene method on the remaining two thirds of the plot. When preparing the rest of the plot keep the hdb in place and simply roll back and then roll back to the line where you have managed to prepare.
If in the meantime you pot raise plants ready to plant out as the clearance progresses.
Prior to living in Herefordshire I lived in Hertfordshire which was a quite heavy clay soil. Thankfully with clay there is a very high nutrient value normally and crops do grow very well.
Sincerely,
JB.
For a good clean clearance it is best to use hd Black and hd Clear polythene.
If you use hdb to clear the existing growth and then remove hdb and allow the plot to become well rained on and then use hdc to germinate the seeds left on the surface and allow them to grow well and before they get a chance to flower and seed put the hdb back and kill these off as well. Sadly this process is quite a long one but well worth it in the end.
I would suggest clearing one third of your plot the hard way to give you room for some crops in late spring this year and use the polythene method on the remaining two thirds of the plot. When preparing the rest of the plot keep the hdb in place and simply roll back and then roll back to the line where you have managed to prepare.
If in the meantime you pot raise plants ready to plant out as the clearance progresses.
Prior to living in Herefordshire I lived in Hertfordshire which was a quite heavy clay soil. Thankfully with clay there is a very high nutrient value normally and crops do grow very well.
Sincerely,
JB.