Modified Superspud

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Johnboy
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby Johnboy » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:56 pm

Well said Parsons Jack!
We in Europe do live a life of luxury with boundless food at our fingertips. We have those who have been against GM from the start because they see it as a threat to the way they think the world should continue. They will invent problems rather than help when it comes to GM and as one set of thought-up problems are answered and GM appears to be being more acceptable these people not only bring the answered questions back with further scare stories they invent further scare stories and wrap them up as fact. This is all in the name of Organics!
GM has been described as out of date technology by the Soil Association.
It is said not to be living up to what it promised. It is the very people saying this who are responsible for it not reaching the stage it might have had they not trashed most of the necessary field trials. This again is in the name of Organics!
When I started gardening organic meant anything based on carbon and then 'Organics' sprung up and The Henry Doubleday Research Association
under the Founder and Leader Lawrence Hills. HDRA was wonderful and happy until Lawrence retired then it has gone down hill from that point.
Lawrence was not hell bell on making masses of money and those that followed wanted to make a mint. Herein lies the problems with the HDRA call it what you will!
The Soil Association in those days were viewed as a bunch of cranks
and I personally still hold that view. They talked their way into being the supposed number one organic organization in the land but in truth are nothing more than a trading company. Their comments on GM are made out of fear for their existence because they know that should GM be widely accepted their days of fame will wither and die. They will continue to stand in the way of scientific advance out of sheer dogma.
With Organic Farming The Soil Association is moving backwards and not forwards as it should be moving. Science is being lost because of them.
It is time that all these petty scare stories involving GM were laid to rest and the only way that can be done is through research and more research!
You can invent an objection to GM in a matter of seconds and this is what is happening and this can only thrive on Chinese Whispers and again this is what is happening.
If these whisperers were to actually sit back and do a little research for themselves the whispering would soon stop and the country would benefit instead of all this persistent bickering.
I have decided that I am getting too old to care any longer and as from today I shall be taking a rest, initially for a months trial, and I will go to read only and take no further part in any discussion.
JB
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John Walker
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby John Walker » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:12 pm

*FOR INFORMATION*

The Independent, 28 September 2010

GM maize 'has polluted rivers across the United States'

An insecticide used in genetically modified (GM) crops grown extensively in the United States and other parts of the world has leached into the water of the surrounding environment.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environmen ... 91300.html
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alan refail
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby alan refail » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:47 am

Parsons Jack and Johnboy

How refreshing for once to have a realistic, unblinkered view of the issue. So much of what is said about agriculture/food production, including on this forum, has an outlook which does not stretch beyond the pampered western European middle-class, often even just the United Kingdom.
"Organic", "fair-trade", "ethical", "sustainable", "food miles" and all the other recent buzz words have been invented by the comfortably off, usually to make them feel happier, more virtuous, or what have you. The poor in this country and across the world couldn't give a flying f**k about such concepts, so long as they do not go hungry.
Yes, I do grow organically, I am a member of HDRA (sorry, Garden Organic (a middle-class bit of ungrammatical cute nomenclature if ever there was one!), we do buy local meat, we do use organic milk and carrots, we are aware of food miles, we do buy fair trade tea and coffee; but then we are middle-class. If I were still in the rural labouring class, where my roots are, I reckon I would be acting rather differently.

John Walker

Were it not for your indication "for information" I would be inclined to respond "So what!"
Pesticide pollution is wrong and dangerous, but this story hardly constitutes an argument against GM maize. It could only do so if there were never any pesticide pollution of watercourses by farmers growing non GM crops. The phrase "clutching at straws" springs readily to mind.
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby Tony Hague » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:46 am

alan refail wrote:Pesticide pollution is wrong and dangerous, but this story hardly constitutes an argument against GM maize. It could only do so if there were never any pesticide pollution of watercourses by farmers growing non GM crops.


The difference here is that the pesticide is not an agrochemical sprayed onto the crops (and hence applied in controlable quantities), but is actually produced by the plant itself in whatever quantities it sees fit !
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alan refail
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby alan refail » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:11 am

Thanks Tony. I should have read more carefully :oops: :oops:

{edited to add

However, after more investigation, it emerges that the "pesticide" in question is Bacillus thuringiensis

From Independent article "The GM maize, or corn as it is called in the US, has a gene from the bacterium Bacillus thuriengensis (Bt) inserted into it to repel the corn borer beetle."

Bt is also widely used in organic systems -

http://www.bt.ucsd.edu/organic_farming.html

So maybe the journalist is less interested in science and facts and more skilled in scaremongering!}

Glad I read the article and comments with care this time.

By the way the corn borer is NOT a beetle but a moth!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Corn_Borer

Some "Science Editor"!!!
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alan refail
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby alan refail » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:34 am

...and some more information on the safety and risks of Bt, which has been researched over decades. Explore this site and get the facts, not the hysteria.

http://www.bt.ucsd.edu/
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby Nature's Babe » Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:58 pm

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alan refail
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby alan refail » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:17 pm

Nature's Babe wrote:More facts from the Lancet -


NB

Please note date of this article - Sun, 17 Oct 99

It has nothing to do with the Indian potato research this thread started with - nor, for that matter, the Bt maize it drifted into. As such it is not relevant to the present discussion.
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby Nature's Babe » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:57 pm

Yes they agreed it was not what was being inserted,that caused the changes, but the actual process of insertion that was causing the problem in the gut, and GM are very carefully avoiding further research on that. The lancet is pretty thorough on checking research.
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alan refail
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Re: Modified Superspud

Postby alan refail » Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:52 am

NB

If you would care to delve further you would find that Arpad Pusztai's work is not highly rated by his peers, who find his methodology flawed and his conclusions false:

http://academicsreview.org/reviewed-con ... ed-claims/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/474911.stm

As for your statement: " The lancet is pretty thorough on checking research.", perhaps you will read this, published in 1999, and think differently.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environmen ... 37888.html
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