Wood / Multi-fuel stoves-fitting of

[Compo]

Hi all

No need to reply to this if you are not sure, I want to fit a wood / multi-fuel stove in my lounge, and the building regs are complex, does anyone know what the clearance around the sides and top need to be from a non combustible material (it will be placed within an existing fire place, but have looked online at all the regs and cannot find how much space it needs to have around it....

Anyone know?

[pongeroon]

I don't know the answer Compo, but we have a multi-fuel stove which was fitted by the previous occupant who worked for a stove supplier.

The gap between the sides of the stove and the pine fire surround is 5", and the wood has been badly charred (not by us!) but the previous occupants liked a few drinks, so maybe their attention was not always on the stove....

The distance between the top of the stove and the surround is 9", and there is no blackening at all.

I don't suupose this is actually any help at all, but maybe a local stove supplier would be able to help? Particularly if you pretended to be interested in buying a stove??

[Johnboy]

Hi Compo,
I take on board what Pongeroon has said and add this; I should contact your local Fire Safety Officer who should be able to give you all the information that you are after.
JB.

[John]

Hello Compo
I think once you have decided on a stove, the makers will have all the info you need in their installation instructions. We fitted a new gas oven recently and it came will clear installation plans and instructions.

John

[Geoff]

Don't know about the spacing you want but I do know about tar. When we converted the barn we had a stone fireplace built with a clay pipe lined chimney and installed a Much Wenlock stove with it's flue pipe going up into the liner surrounded by fire cement. We had loads of trouble with smelly tarry distillate leaking out of the joint down the outside of the flue pipe. In the end I removed the stove and chiselled out round the liner. I got a stainless steel funnel made such that one end fitted round the outside of the liner and the other end went inside the flue. When it was all blacked up it looked perfectly OK and now anything that comes down the chimney goes back into the stove and doesn't smell. I am probably telling you what you already know but just be sure you know where the wood tar will run to.

[AnneThomas]

Hi Compo

I hope this doesn't come through twice as I typed it up earlier but it seems to have disappeared into the mists of the internet as things do!

These are the fitting instructions for our charnwood woodburning stove:

"The stove must stand on a fireproof hearth and must be situated at least 300mm (12ins) from any combustible material. There must be a gap behind the stove of at least 25 mm to allow air to enter the airwash inlets. The positioning of the stove and the size of the hearth are governed by building regs for Class 1 appliances. These building regs state that the hearth must extend in front of the stove by at least 300mm (12ins) and to the sides of the stove by at least 150 mm (6ins). ..... The fireplace must allow good circulation of air around the appliance to ensure maximum heat is transferred to the room and also to prevent the fireplace from overheating. A gap of 150mm (6ins) each side and 300mm (12ins) above the appliance should give sufficient air circulation. If a wooden mantelpiece or beam is used in the fireplace it should be a minimum of 460 mm (18ins) and preferably 600mm (24ins) from the appliance. In some situations it may be necessary to shield the beam or mantelpiece to protect it."

I hope this helps a bit. I have to say that (looking over my shoulder) ours doesn't meet the regs as it doesn't have 12" in front of it. Ours sits on a hearth in front of the fire as the hole wasn't big enough for anything to sit in. We do have a makeshift 'hearth' made from plywood covered with slate tiles which goes on the floor in front of the fire when it is on. Also its only abut 12" from the wooden mantel above but we haven't had any scorching - we've had the stove in for about 11 years and it is used for most of the winter. I know this doesn't excuse us for breaking the regs - I hope no-one on this site works for H&S!

My advice would be to get one that burns both wood and coal - well woodburning coal. A couple of times we have ordered seasoned logs and they have been too wet to burn and so have had to have coal - we don't have the space to store 2 supplies of logs - nor the money to buy them! Coal keeps the fire going better overnight - we have never managed to keep ours going all night with just logs - you might not want to keep yours going 24/7 but ours is our main source of heat for the house. Logs definitely burn much cleaner and with hardly any ash - which in any event is very useful for the garden - but not the coal ash.

Hope this helps.
Anne

[Compo]

Thanks Anne

This was what I wanted to know, it is not the firesafety officer but the the local council building regs department that are the local point of contact. I already have one multifuel stove so I am ok with the practicalities.

We burn a little woodburning coal (ovals) with the logs, and have just read that the combination of the moisture in the wood and the coal together can make for production of suphuric acid whcih is highly corrosive, anyone else heard of this?

[garden_serf]

I have just been through the whole process with the Buildings Inspector to complete conversion of a lower floor cellar (2 years work!). The regs can be complicated as you say and they change frequently too.

Our Inspector was very helpful. If I wanted to check if I had worked them out correctly (i.e Stairwell/staircase regs !!!!!!!) I just asked him (quick call or email) and got straightforward easy answers from the horses mouth every time.

Check with the guy who will have the final say, just to be certain!
Got our bright orange certificate last week

[Johnboy]

Compo,
A website that may help you.
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/fitting_a_stove.html
You may rather ungraciously brush aside my previous attempt to assist you but I feel that fire safety is your prime consideration and do you really think that a Fire Safety Officer would quote you anything outside the Building Regulations with regards to dimensions. A Fire Safety Officer in fact can be of great help to you in a great many ways so do not dismiss them so lightly.
JB.

[Compo]

Johnboy (holding my tongue very carefully) I e-mailed the fire brigade today and they simply say contact a Heatass engineer or look at building regs or speak to your local building inspector, they say that they have common sense approach to the matter but the building regs have become so complex they cannot advise. I am flabergasted by your comments. My posting does not look at all ungracious (Compo trips down the hallway of his bungalow most graciously)

CoMpO

[Johnboy]

Hi Compo,
It seems a case of different approaches in different areas!
In this area the local Fire Safety Officer pays a visit and gives good sound advice including the dimensions mentioned in building regulations including also ventilation which are most important. Of course in this area we have totally different types of houses and very few modern Bungalows. Many very old and many thatched dwellings with fire hazards that perhaps you do not have in your area.
However I have tried to assist you but obviously another futile attempt.
JB.

[garden_serf]

It appears that every area is served differently with the way you can get any sort of information that could potentially be litigious.
Here our building Inspector was very experienced, able and willing to give confident advice.

Sometimes the way computerised text, emails and posts are written, and taken, can cause many an upset. We cannot truly know the mood each person is in at the time. Messages are devoid of body language and emotion. The written word is easily misconstrued when stripped of these common communication skills that we take for granted when talking face to face.

I definitely have to try on a daily basis not to repond with too much zeal to messages written in a format that could be taken one of several ways.
I could be a right bossy bi*ch if I let rip every time I wanted too!!

[Compo]

Thank you Garden_serf, the danger of contacting the building inspector here is that he will insist that the work is certified and even put a closing notice on the fire if it is is not fitted by a heatas engineer or if he has not certified it at the cost of £150, it puts the cost of the stove into silly money, and am now familiar with them which makes the fitting operation a whole lot simpler thank you to all for advice. And John boy too. (sincerely)

On the second note I agree to the e-mail / text / posting theory of yours Garden_Serf, and mostly I follow your wise words sometimes however, anything on here can be taken the wrong way, and you can't please everyone, everytime.

CoMpO

[garden_serf]

A couple of years back we replaced an old set up with a modern woodburner (in France) and it cost quite a bit! I just could not get my head around the regs in French So we paid a local professional to do it. The previous old woodburner (60 years old) worked very well and was nice and big to take good sized logs but.... One night, 5am, the joists in the 1st floor caught fire! The fire was hdden under the floorboards and carpet and chucking out toxic fumes into the kids bedroom.

There were 6 people in the house that night, what a sight, us all trying to work out what was going on, in nightgear, ripping up carpet, hacking open the floor with an axe! applying water in a controlled way to stop the fire inside the floor and as it turns out inside the chimney... Carrying bits of smouldering timbers into the garden using a metal bucket. A couple of us were sick because of the smoke. We did put it out after about an hour.

The next day after taking more things apart we saw the problem. No liner/flu IN the chimney. Only one that went into the chimney at the bottom then stopped. The pointing inside the chimney had failed and very hot air/smoke going up the chimney had seeped through the holes in the stonework and set fire to the floor joists.

I appreciate stuff anyway, but it really helps to appreciate more the services we have here in the uk. We were at 1050m in a remote area of the French Alps, heavy snow all around, no assistance for miles...so just had to cope with it! I was so pleased how we all responded and worked together to get the job done, this sort of thing does not get tested usually.

[Compo]

Wow what a story Garden (sorry it seems odd referring to you as this!!) the exhaust fumes were probably much hotter from the new more efficient stove. I will think about that when we have ours done. We have a chimney which is very sound at the moment and as we are in a bungalow the riskiest part of the chimney is n the loft, but I will take a good look up there before we fit the stove. The building inspector will do a site visit but wants 90 quid to certify it. This includes a prelim visit before we fit said stove.

An amazing story about your family, do you still have the place in France?

CoMpO