what is organic?

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what is organic?

Postby Guest » Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:21 pm

It’s noticeable that words can mean different things to us all, I have noticed that ‘organic’ is a case in point. So what does organic mean then….?
Tom Parsons
Organic Gardener
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Postby paul.r » Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:41 pm

over to Alan.......response to follow.
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Postby Allan » Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:01 pm

If you are so Organic (Soil Association standards)or organic (your definition), I think we would all be very interested to know what it means to you.
I have had my say on more than one occasion.Even if I wanted to go that way it would mean economic disaster by reason of the extra administrative and labour costs, unsustainable by sales.
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Postby Chantal » Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:04 pm

Yup, it makes one L of a difference...
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Postby Geoff » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:19 pm

Bunk!

Bugger bit my tongue, I wasn't going to start this again.
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Postby fen not fen » Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:00 am

As a Soil Association registered market gardener much of it is dictated by the Soil Association, and to be fair, the EU. However before I got involved in being 'officially' organic for me it was (and still is) about growing in co-operation with the natural systems, rather than trying to beat them with chemicals. For me being 'mostly organic'is a bit like being half pregnant because my personal version of organic is a holistic approach - it is all or nothing. However as a card carrying tree hugger I am very pleased that the majority of gardeners are now using fewer chemicals (yes Allan I know the misuse of that word winds you up, but I think most people know what we mean). It is also safer for them as I have yet to see a domestic gardener use protective gear when spraying.
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Organics

Postby Johnboy » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:02 am

ORGANICS: A Disease spread by the Soil Association.

TREATMENT: None available. Some people have found that less self-righteousness helps.

PROGNOSIS: In the years to come Genetic Engineering will sweep Organics aside. Hopefully!!
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Postby peat » Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:30 am

genetic engineering will mean the control of our food supply by a few chemical companies. It is already illegal in Iraq to save seed. All farmers there have to buy from companies like Monsanto.
These transgenes have already escaped into the wild and there are herbicide resistant weeds in this country.
If the terminator gene is allowed to be used and that escapes in time there will be no seeds to grow.
The problem with gm is not that it is bad for us but that it gives control and abuse to a few people. As the Us govt says they want to control all the basic seed for the world.
That is not the future I would like to leave to my descendents.
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Postby Johnboy » Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:43 am

Peat,
It is abundantly clear that you do not understand what a terminator genetic plant is.
Please answer this question. How many Seed producers apart from poor quality Organic seeds are not owned by Chemical Companies at this present time?
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Organic or not

Postby Ian F 2 » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:51 pm

I agree with fen not fen on this - in fact he has summed it up very nicely. It is too easy to get precious on the topic, and for everyone to assume entrenched positions. I try and follow organic principles, and work with nature, rather than against it. If this means reduced chemical inputs then that is to the good, especially as it reduces costs. However I would not hesitate to use chemicals when necessary (Glyphosate, Slug Pellets and anti-potato blight sprays to name the main ones).

Mr Potato Head issued a few wise words on the subject recently in a different thread. I think that one of the biggest danger is that inexperienced gardeners all want to be organic, without any real knowledge of what it entails. They can then become disheartened because of the problems that they encounter, when the use of a small number of chemicals could make things much easier.
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Postby Tony Hague » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:12 pm

I'm also with fen not fen here. I do think the use of agrochemicals by domestic gardeners is quite scary - as well as the lack of protective gear, how often do they dilute with great care - and then proceed to drench the plants with about ten times the appropriate dose. I would bet quite a few home grown veggies have residues rather higher than the stuff in the supermarket !

I don't get it. Ok, so maybe avoiding garden chemicals may be harder work, but if I wanted the easy life I'd just go to Tesco.
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Postby Allan » Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:36 pm

You lot tempt me to come in. It so happens that none of my produce gets sprayed with any 'chemical' other than good old H2O or occasionally a foliar feed which for hygienic reasons is more likely to be out of a packet. This All-Chemical conventional farmer doesn't exist, it is a fiction of the imagination of some of the Organicists, they have to have a bogeyman to attack in order to rally the troops behind them. Nobody sprays without good reason, it costs time and money and it is all done to strict safety standards with adequate safety margins.The exception to convention is the hydroponic grower and I challenge anybody to find any 'victim' of the theoretically poisonous salad food now on offer in the majority of shops.
Back to the watercress
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Postby Allan » Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:48 pm

p.s. before I go, is Tom Parsons (Organic grower)going to tell us what Organic or organic means to him.
Gardening is most unnatural and there is virtually no vegetable in cultivation that is in its'natural' state apart from the weeds, most herbs and my watercress!
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Postby Guest » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:46 pm

Can I make it clear I said "domestic gardener" - I'm not talking about commercial growers.
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Postby richard p » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:40 pm

johnboy, could you clarify what a terminater gene is please.
allan, a good reason to spray could be just that the customer, (supermarket) insists on it , and will reject a whole lorryload of for example lettuce if one slug is found.
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