What do you think?

[Stephen]

Woahh there
I appear to be coming in for some (mild) stick - don't worry, I'm up to this! But I do feel I will respond
Lizzie you said

I feel that the veggies should make a compromise and eat meat occasionally.

but this is asking someone to not be a vegetarian. Being a vegetarian is a bit like being pregnant - either you are or you are not - it's not possible to change for a day or two (Ok, it's not a very good analogy but I can not think of something better at the moment)
Johnboy: I don't want any moral ground - high or low. I have taken a decision and I am very happy with that choice, enough for the past 40odd years (very odd years). I respect my parent's choice of diet and they respect mine. When parents have visisted, SWMBO has cooked the meat, I have cooked the other bits.

Remember that you are a vegetarian from your choice and not a saint.
Carnivores respect vegetarians and pamper to their needs but it is not reciprocated by vegetarians.

I make absolutely no claim to grace, nor do I require pampering. My point about how my mother put up with us was exactly that she did less and not more and I think more of her for exactly that.

[lizzie]

I remember one time that I was having a particularly bad time with the old bones and was unable to cook. I then went against everything and bought the buggers ready meals

After 2 meals, they were cooking. They couldn't stand the stuff. They then realised how lucky they were that I cook for them.

They did cook last night, fair enough.

I can feel another little trip to Dublin coming on. This time, I won't shop or anything for them. I'll leave the whole planning/shopping process to them. I may even go for a week.

I think I may be able to stand roughing it in a 5* hotel with waiters etc.......I may even hire some Butlers in the Buff (see www.butlersinthebuff.co.uk) for when I return. I'm always up for trying new kitchen gadgets

[retropants]

Thankyou Stephen for your sensible post. I feel slightly less angry now. I was going to reply to some of the more anti-veggie posts, but thought better of it. In my experience, none of my friends or family are remotely bothered by my being a vegetarian, and a strict one at that. If at mother's, I will eat just vegetables, but she will insist on cooking something like a nut cutlet etc anyway, same goes for my sister. My friends will cook veggie or both when we go round, and as previously mentioned, I am lactose intolerant too, so that adds more dramas! They are all very good, and I have never had a whinge from anyone. When we have folks over for dinner, I will cook vegetarian, they expect this, and always say how delicious it is. (sorry, not trying to brag!)When we have a bbq in the summer, I have separate area for meat and veggie on the grill, as I am not the only 'one'. I have nothing to do with the meaty one!!! I also agree with Chantal....I think the problem is that if someone is a vegetarian because of conscience then even handling meat is against everything they believe in.

A meat eater doesn't usually have the same isssues about "murdering" vegetables, so it's easy for a meat eater to prepare vegetarian dishes.

That said, I totally sympathise with Lizzie and feel she should make them cook their own and has been suggested earier, she could grill a chop or steak and add it to their vegetable offering.

Sorry for the rant, I do sympathise with Lizzie, but I don't much like the veggie bashing that this topic seems to have morphed into.
sorry

[lizzie]

I certainly didn't intend things to turn into a anti-veggie rant, but I did ask for opinions which I certainly have got

I have nothing against vegetarianism......it's a choice (or not if you don't like meat like my son) but I do object to unfairness.

Things will improve now as Big Andrew now realises how strongly I felt. I let him read the posts so he now knows.

[retropants]

The trouble is, when your family is used to having every meal prepared for them, they take it for granted, and you don't stand a chance! If I ask my DH 'what's for tea then?' he goes a bit green around the gills and suggests sheepishly... 'chips?' I just sigh and get on with it, if I ate chips every day, I'll end up on one of those fat vs thin freaky eater tv shows that are all the rage at the moment!!!

[mandylew]

I'm confused Lizzie says

I feel that the veggies should make a compromise and eat meat occasionally.

then replies to my post

Once again, i'm not expecting them to eat meat

As for Johnboy's comments, relationships are all about compromise on both sides, we have none of the resentment clearly manifesting itself in Lizzies house, because we have found a solution that works for us, and i was sharing it.

An extremely selfish parent is one, who in my opinion makes the children conform to their own ways of thinking, perhaps in the case of vegetarian parents, not letting them try meat, or in the case of meat eaters, not letting them be vegetarians.

Mandy

[jane E]

Lizzie - I don't think your problem is vegetarian v. meat eating. I think you've got the ' I'm being taken for granted mumitis'. Always on call, same old jobs, never mind how mum feels, rarely a thankyou. It was at the same stage I got my allotment and disappeared down to it when I felt 'hard done by.' Result - I'm a reasonable gardener and my son is a chef!!

[Stephen]

Lizzie
Be assured I didn't take your initial post as a rant in any way. Enjoy your butler and trip to Dublin.

[Johnboy]

Utter one word out of place about vegetarianism and it is immediately labelled “veggie bashing” yet I feel that vegetarians, in their quest to further their beliefs, do far more meat eater bashing than the other way round.
I feel that vegetarians simple do not understand the meaning of the word ‘compromise’.
Within my family circle there are several vegetarians but one in particular detests meat eaters yet he is married to a meat eater. They have to have two kitchens and two of everything. We cannot take him out for a meal because he simple will not accept a vegetarian meal that has been cooked in a kitchen that has been used for cooking meat dishes. WE have compromised and taken him to a vegetarian restaurant, which are few and far apart in this neck of the woods, and it involves a 70 mile round trip
WE have compromised and eaten a vegetarian meal which, to most of us, was no real hardship. But never the less it is us that have compromised not him.
When I told my son in law to sod off out of my kitchen it was because I was trying very hard to cater for him and after two hours of negotiating he would not have anything cooked in my kitchen and I was trying to cook a meal for eleven meat eaters and him. I had bought a nut cutlet and all the vegetables yet he would not accept that because it would have been cooked in an oven used to cook meat. Believe you me there was no compromise possible. To compound his behaviour he sat at the lunch table and ate an apple and made the whole meal an unpleasant event for everybody.
Twelve people around a table in total silence because of one person, who, however principled he was, was not prepared to compromise.
After that episode he is not really welcome in my home and strangely he has just been served with divorce proceedings by my daughter because she, after 12 years of marriage, has had more than she can stand.
Now if this is typical of vegetarians then I feel that I shall very happily remain a carnivore.
Now Retro, Mandy and Stephen what have you to say about that!
JB.

[retropants]

JB, I think your son in law is quite a bad example of a vegetarian, as, my self included, I cannot remember any such incident or hostility (in either direction) between vegetarians and meat eaters. I have never tried to dictate to anyone else what they should eat, and I eat at restaurants and friends houses, just not meat! When people eat at my house, we either cook veggie, order a take away, or have a bbq as I mentioned before. I think that this would be the typical behaviour for most vegetarians. I would hope so anyway! If there is no vegetarian meal available, I am happy to eat just the side dishes of vegetables.
I'm sorry your son in law is such a g*t, I can assure you that I am not! i just don't eat meat, that's all.
I still think there was a little 'veggie bashing' going on,and you should not tar us all with the same brush as your son in law, he is clearly a pain in the bum.
no hard feelings?

[Gilly C]

Can I add my twopennyworth, do any of the vegatarians wear leather shoes ? if so how do you justify that ? A very close friend of mine has cancer she had so much chemotherapy/radiotherapy her organs have shrunk, she now cannot digest milk but uses yoghurt on cereal, she was told by her doctor that she needed to eat meat to survive, she only eats fish and lamb or organic meat ie nothing that could have been factory farmed but 25 years on is still with us , she still has a few problems but alive and enjoying life at one point she was only given days to live.

JB your son in law sounds like a control freak a bit like mine

[Stephen]

Johnboy: Your son-in-law has a problem - and in my experience (and my approach) is atypical of vegetarians.
As explained earlier: I ate in various family kitchens, have eaten in countless restaurants and hotels (I have even had a cup of coffee in MaccyDs - I didn't eat because it was 11am am I wasn't hungry)

[WestHamRon]

Can I add my twopennyworth, do any of the vegatarians wear leather shoes ? if so how do you justify that ? A very close friend of mine has cancer she had so much chemotherapy/radiotherapy her organs have shrunk, she now cannot digest milk but uses yoghurt on cereal, she was told by her doctor that she needed to eat meat to survive, she only eats fish and lamb or organic meat ie nothing that could have been factory farmed but 25 years on is still with us , she still has a few problems but alive and enjoying life at one point she was only given days to live.

JB your son in law sounds like a control freak a bit like mine

Very simply. Many Vegetarians choose not to eat meat because they dislike the texture/flavour of meat, nothing to do with "animal rights".

[Chantal]

In which case they can cook it for other people.

[Gilly C]

My feelings too