Composting direct into the soil

[Primrose]

Will shortly be clearing a sunny south facing border where I've grown climbing beans and tomatoes in soil which is generally dry and stoney. Although I have a compost heap I can't generate enough and wonder whether it would be detrimental to dig in shredded twigs and grass clippings into the bare earth to rot down in the soil over the winter to provide a good humus base for next spring. My compost heap takes too long to rot down and I wonder whether being stuff for composting being dug direct into the soil would speed up the process.

[Beryl]

Hi Primrose.

I don't see any reason why you should'nt dig in any vegetation apart from anything woody. I would chop it up as small as you can first. On the allotment we always dig several trenches and fill it with all spent bedding plants, old tomato plants, in fact any soft green waste and I find by the spring it has all rotted down.
Like you we run out of compost space particularly this time of the year.

Regards
Beryl.

[Sue]

I used this as well Primrose. I read about it in a book about old gardening practises and thought it was worth a go.

Works well for any crops which grow above ground, but I did find it increased slugs a lot in the spuds. I make sure now that if I do it, I keep away from next years spud patch. Has worked a treat on my heavy old clay allotment though. I now have soil I can dig over without losing the will to live

Sue

[Allan]

The material will rot down that way but I would expect quicker results can be obtained in an enclosed bin with the proper management. I use a bin of mesh panels and never turn it which saves on effort, the end result is much the same.
Allan

[peter]

No harm in doing that, but remember the rotting will deplete the nitrogen levels.

[Allan]

I am seeing this idea as the opposite to what I will have to do with my proposed green manuring. As I use a rotovator to cultivate the soil, digging in green manure is not possible therefore I shall cut the tops off and take them to the compost bin. The equivalent finished compost can then be returned to that plot, bearing in mind that much of the benefit of green manuring is in the root structure which will break down in situ and the experts seem to think this can be more important than the tops owing to the extensiveness of root systems. Any substantial weed growth is also cut and composted. Conversely any waste material could be added to the soil directly but it will take longer to rot down. Grass mulches also come in both categories once their immediate use has finished, they could be removed and added to the bin but it is easier to work them into the soil to complete decomposition.
I agree that adding unrotted material is no short cut except in effort, certainly not timewise.

[lizzie]

I just dig stuff into the earth cos I can't be bothered causing myself more pain by bending down to pick the stuff up.It rots down better straight into the earth and you can decide what to dig in where ie, if you need more nitrogen in one area, dig in more peas or beans.

[Primrose]

Beryl, Sue & Lizzie.
I'm following your practice this year to save myself some effort. This afternoon have dug up all my tomato vines and my climbing beans, chopped them up and put them in trenches where they'll be growing next year. (I alternate their locations every year as don't have enough space in my garden for proper rotation). So the bean haulms will be feeding the tomato roots next year and vice versa. The rain has just started to pour down on the earth covering the trench so hopefully by next spring everything will have rotted down. I'll be interested to see if this methods helps retain any more moisture in my light stoney soil next year if we have another dry summer.

[OverWyreGrower]

I am seeing this idea as the opposite to what I will have to do with my proposed green manuring. As I use a rotovator to cultivate the soil, digging in green manure is not possible therefore I shall cut the tops off and take them to the compost bin.

Hi Allan

Excuse the hijacking of the thread...

We're trying to decide whether to green manure our paddock over winter before we split one side into veg beds and another into lawn (about 800 sq m)

We were planning on hiring a plough/rotavator before we green manure, and then hiring it again in the spring to clear the green manure...

From your reply, I take it you can't rotavate green manures back into the soil? Is there a particular reason why? What would you suggest with an area the size of ours (a bit back breaking trying to pull up that much stuff!)

Cheers

OWG

[oldherbaceous]

OWG, i grow a lot of green manure, you can indeed rotavate it in, but you will need a powerful rotavator to chop it up.
I luckily own a howard gem, and if i go over the ground three times it chops it up and everything is buried. It really does help to improve the ground.
This is just the way i go about the job, but it's certainly not the only way to tackle it.

Kind regards Old Herbaceous.

There no fool like an old fool.

[Johnboy]

Hi OWG,
You may find it best to use a Rotavator in the Autumn to get a tilth to sow your green manure and then plough it all in in the Spring. Remember that ploughing will leave you with furrows and they have to be worked down before you can grow anything else.
If you are unused to ploughing it is probably best to hire a contractor who will have all the necessary equipment and be able to leave it all ready for you to use.
JB.

[Garlic_Guy]

You might also be interested in the article below:
http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/todo_now/veg_gard_now.php#bean_trench

[richard p]

if you find the rotovater wont chop the green manure , chop it up with the lawnmower or strimmer first, its normally the green stems are to tough for he blunt rotovater blades to cut, dead brittle stems will shatter .,

[Johnboy]

Hi Colin,
Mine used to be a Pea Trench and I learned that one back in the 1930's from my Grandfather. When there was a houseful of people here it was worthwhile but now that I am mainly on my own it would take me a couple of years to complete the trench.
It works exceedingly well and was surprised to see it on the HDRA site. Although I live in the sticks we do not get Rats normally (only occasionally at harvest time and they either get the chop or move on for lack of food) but I feel that on an urban Allotment there could be some difficulties with them during the winter months and earth is no barrier to them and certainly Badgers would fetch the waste out with one swipe of a front paw. I think that if you were to store the waste until you had a sackful then dig a trench and bury about 12" deep then you may not get the problems but storing is a smelly old process and not everybody's cup of tea.
Thank you for the blast from the past it was well worth reading.
JB.

[OverWyreGrower]

Thanks everyone...

Since we've got such a big area we're going to hire in a mini-tractor thing with a rotavator-type machine (our little lawn tractor isn't strong enought to pull one).

I'm now going to research different kinds of green manure... need something I can plant most stuff into afterwards...

Oh, this gardening thing is mor complicated than we ever imagined!