This is a long read but I think well worth the effort to see both sides of the issue. Needless to say ML is now no friend of the Soil Association.
Lecture to Oxford Farming Conference, 3 January 2013
http://www.marklynas.org/2013/01/lectur ... uary-2013/
Soil Association response:
http://www.soilassociation.org/news/new ... ynas-talks
Anti-GM campaigner sees sense
Moderators: KG Steve, Chantal, Tigger, peter, Chief Spud
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alan refail
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Cred air o bob deg a glywi, a thi a gei rywfaint bach o wir (hen ddihareb Gymraeg)
Believe one tenth of what you hear, and you will get some little truth (old Welsh proverb)
Believe one tenth of what you hear, and you will get some little truth (old Welsh proverb)
Hi Alan,
Thanks for this, very informative and it would appear that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Regards
Arnie
Thanks for this, very informative and it would appear that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Regards
Arnie
I've learned.... That the easiest way for me to grow as a person is to surround myself with people smarter than I am.
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alan refail
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As expected, the vilification is coming in thick and fast.
http://www.gmfreecymru.org/pivotal_pape ... chool.html
http://www.gmfreecymru.org/pivotal_pape ... chool.html
Cred air o bob deg a glywi, a thi a gei rywfaint bach o wir (hen ddihareb Gymraeg)
Believe one tenth of what you hear, and you will get some little truth (old Welsh proverb)
Believe one tenth of what you hear, and you will get some little truth (old Welsh proverb)
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peter
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A quote from Alans latest link.
"Others might see the conversion of a naive individual from one religion to another........."
So it is a religion.
"Others might see the conversion of a naive individual from one religion to another........."
So it is a religion.
Do not put off thanking people when they have helped you, as they may not be there to thank later.
I support http://www.hearingdogs.org.uk/
I support http://www.hearingdogs.org.uk/
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alan refail
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peter wrote:A quote from Alans latest link.
"Others might see the conversion of a naive individual from one religion to another........."
So it is a religion.
Well, the antis are busy establishing some holy scriptures, they already have a well-used hymn book and can call on the support thousands of obedient acolytes.
Cred air o bob deg a glywi, a thi a gei rywfaint bach o wir (hen ddihareb Gymraeg)
Believe one tenth of what you hear, and you will get some little truth (old Welsh proverb)
Believe one tenth of what you hear, and you will get some little truth (old Welsh proverb)
WHAT A DIFFERENCE A DAY MAKES!
On the 2nd January 2013 Mark Lynas was not only practicing the religion of Organics he was up there with the saints. The acolytes were hanging on his every word and was treated with veneration.
On 3rd January 2013 at The Oxford Farming Conference Mark Lynas exposed Organics for what it is, an enumerated, dogmatic, backward looking bunch of pseudo scientific nobodies who's only claim to fame is to condemn all other forms of growing other than their own hoping that if they can keep repeating the same dogmatic jargon over and over again people will accept it as the truth!
So in just one day from being a very respected person to look-up to He has gone from Pseudo-Scientist to Neo-Scientist. (WHATEVER THAT IS)
The fall was great but he fell on the right soil and will have come out of this totally unscathed irrespective of whatever his critics say.
I suspect that it is possible that many of his followers will follow him out of the wilderness and start learning about the real world.
Welcome to the right side Mark Lynas!
JB.
On the 2nd January 2013 Mark Lynas was not only practicing the religion of Organics he was up there with the saints. The acolytes were hanging on his every word and was treated with veneration.
On 3rd January 2013 at The Oxford Farming Conference Mark Lynas exposed Organics for what it is, an enumerated, dogmatic, backward looking bunch of pseudo scientific nobodies who's only claim to fame is to condemn all other forms of growing other than their own hoping that if they can keep repeating the same dogmatic jargon over and over again people will accept it as the truth!
So in just one day from being a very respected person to look-up to He has gone from Pseudo-Scientist to Neo-Scientist. (WHATEVER THAT IS)
The fall was great but he fell on the right soil and will have come out of this totally unscathed irrespective of whatever his critics say.
I suspect that it is possible that many of his followers will follow him out of the wilderness and start learning about the real world.
Welcome to the right side Mark Lynas!
JB.
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PLUMPUDDING
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I don't see why people have to be one thing or the other, for or anti. Surely it is common sense to do what suits you, and use the best from both.
There must some really important developments coming from genetic modification, and these should be welcomed, but some of the experiments sound rather dubious and should be carefully monitored to make sure they don't cause harm to bio-diversity in general, and bees and other insects in particular.
I can't stand all this twaddle about people having followers, turning ideas into cults and religions. It sounds like American hysteria creeping over here, and if this chap wants to change his mind - fine, but who cares? His speech sounds rather shallow to me.
There must some really important developments coming from genetic modification, and these should be welcomed, but some of the experiments sound rather dubious and should be carefully monitored to make sure they don't cause harm to bio-diversity in general, and bees and other insects in particular.
I can't stand all this twaddle about people having followers, turning ideas into cults and religions. It sounds like American hysteria creeping over here, and if this chap wants to change his mind - fine, but who cares? His speech sounds rather shallow to me.
Hi Plumpudding,
I think that it took Mark Lynas real guts to stand in front of an audience that large and full of the very people who will now try and pull him down.
I do not find his speech shallow in any respect.
Mark Lynas is 40 this year and he was brought-up surrounded by organics
and really was never able to gather knowledge from the other side.
His whole family life was to have organics, the soil association version, drummed into him. He was no doubt encouraged to become a trasher of the evil that had come into his life.
It has taken him twenty years, and learning a lot on the way, especially science, to realise that what he was brought-up on was nothing but streams of myth and legend. It has not been an easy transition but he has finally seem the light.
I wonder how long the vilification will last.
His next book should make him a rich man if nothing else.
I say good luck to him but and am glad that his trashing days are over and he will no longer be one of the orchestrators of this vile practice.
JB.
I think that it took Mark Lynas real guts to stand in front of an audience that large and full of the very people who will now try and pull him down.
I do not find his speech shallow in any respect.
Mark Lynas is 40 this year and he was brought-up surrounded by organics
and really was never able to gather knowledge from the other side.
His whole family life was to have organics, the soil association version, drummed into him. He was no doubt encouraged to become a trasher of the evil that had come into his life.
It has taken him twenty years, and learning a lot on the way, especially science, to realise that what he was brought-up on was nothing but streams of myth and legend. It has not been an easy transition but he has finally seem the light.
I wonder how long the vilification will last.
His next book should make him a rich man if nothing else.
I say good luck to him but and am glad that his trashing days are over and he will no longer be one of the orchestrators of this vile practice.
JB.
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John Walker
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I think PLUMPUDDING has summed it up mostly rather well, but hits the nail on the head:
The other obvious word which springs to mind is facile. If any speech was crafted to encourage further polarisation in this debate, when it's least needed, this was it.
However, as a gentle antidote (hopefully) to the intemperate and - should you happen to have a different perspective on this hugely important topic - at best offensive previous comments, here are a couple of links offering a more thoughtful analysis of what Lynas said:
Enviro Crusader Turns Pro-GMO, Anti-Organic—And Anti-Logic
http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott ... -gm-debate
Professor John Vandermeer [Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, University of Michigan at Ann Arbor] challenges environmentalist Mark Lynas on GMOs
http://www.foodfirst.org/en/GMO+uproar+in+EU
Perhaps the most worrying line in all of what Lynas said was this:
A tad out of touch perhaps, considering that this complex and important debate - which has ramifications for all gardeners - has barely even begun.
(Incidentally, Mark Lynas gave his speech to the Oxford Farming Conference http://www.ofc.org.uk which is for unconventional 'big agriculture', not to the Oxford Real Farming Conference http://www.oxfordrealfarmingconference.org which is for conventional, smaller-scale farmers and growers, including those who are organic.)
His speech sounds rather shallow to me.
The other obvious word which springs to mind is facile. If any speech was crafted to encourage further polarisation in this debate, when it's least needed, this was it.
However, as a gentle antidote (hopefully) to the intemperate and - should you happen to have a different perspective on this hugely important topic - at best offensive previous comments, here are a couple of links offering a more thoughtful analysis of what Lynas said:
Enviro Crusader Turns Pro-GMO, Anti-Organic—And Anti-Logic
http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott ... -gm-debate
Professor John Vandermeer [Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, University of Michigan at Ann Arbor] challenges environmentalist Mark Lynas on GMOs
http://www.foodfirst.org/en/GMO+uproar+in+EU
Perhaps the most worrying line in all of what Lynas said was this:
I don’t know about you, but I’ve had enough. So my conclusion here today is very clear: the GM debate is over. It is finished.
A tad out of touch perhaps, considering that this complex and important debate - which has ramifications for all gardeners - has barely even begun.
(Incidentally, Mark Lynas gave his speech to the Oxford Farming Conference http://www.ofc.org.uk which is for unconventional 'big agriculture', not to the Oxford Real Farming Conference http://www.oxfordrealfarmingconference.org which is for conventional, smaller-scale farmers and growers, including those who are organic.)
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farmer jon
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well done mark lynas, you have finally seen the light & come back to the fold from the dark side! not only that, you have stood up to the babbling masses that continue to be brainwashed by the organic pseudo priests that promise all followers a golden land with bountiful harvests of perfect fruit & veg for all eternity. the organic bubble is collapsing from within & not before time !
What I find so strange is from one who writes for a living is that when it gets to posting on this forum you seems unable barely to commit your own thoughts into words but instead post time wasting alternative alternative websites.
John, it is about time we actually heard from you in your own words without the use of alternative websites and then we will be able to assess what you are actually saying and not what Uncle Tom Cobbly and All are saying.
I feel that by posting so many alternative websites you are in breach of the ethos of this forum and until this practice ceases dialogue is not really possible because in real terms you have yet to say anything.
This forum should not be used as a propaganda platform!
JB.
John, it is about time we actually heard from you in your own words without the use of alternative websites and then we will be able to assess what you are actually saying and not what Uncle Tom Cobbly and All are saying.
I feel that by posting so many alternative websites you are in breach of the ethos of this forum and until this practice ceases dialogue is not really possible because in real terms you have yet to say anything.
This forum should not be used as a propaganda platform!
JB.
Hi Plumpudding,
With this I heartily agree. All you now have to do is convince John Walker!
JB.
With this I heartily agree. All you now have to do is convince John Walker!
I don't see why people have to be one thing or the other, for or anti. Surely it is common sense to do what suits you, and use the best from both.
There must some really important developments coming from genetic modification, and these should be welcomed, but some of the experiments sound rather dubious and should be carefully monitored to make sure they don't cause harm to bio-diversity in general, and bees and other insects in particular.
JB.