Wind Farms v Wildlife

[glallotments]

Any thoughts on this
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/8807761/wind-farms-vs-wildlife/

It could even end up being garden related - less bats and birds to feed on the insects that feed on our plants?

If you watched Chris Packhams - Nature's Weirdest Events you will have seen examples of what happens when we shift the balance of nature.

[alan refail]

Alternatives?

Build the Severn barrage - can't do that because it will change the tidal nature of the Bristol Channel - massive effect on wild life.

Build more coal-fired power stations - more carbon emissions.

Build more nuclear power stations - Chernobyl, Fukushima, terrorism threats.

Cover huge areas with solar panels....................

Looks like we're snookered

[glallotments]

Alternatives?

Dare I mention shale gas?

[Tony Hague]

I think that it would be much more helpful if the article could suggest a harmless way of generating electricity, or admit if they would prefer us to sit in the cold and dark.

And bear in mind this

The most recent figures are from the Mammal Society, which estimates that the UK's cats catch up to 275 million prey items a year, of which 55 million are birds

http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/gardening ... lines.aspx

So cats in the UK many more animals than wind turbines in Spain.

[glallotments]

So cats in the UK many more animals than wind turbines in Spain.

I think it is bats that are suffering the most and I don't think cats catch bats. But the combined destruction of both is a problem.

[alan refail]

Dare I mention shale gas?

Fracking shale gas - more carbon emissions, earthquakes in populated areas, possible pollution of groundwater

[Tony Hague]

So cats in the UK many more animals than wind turbines in Spain.

I think it is bats that are suffering the most and I don't think cats catch bats. But the combined destruction of both is a problem.

Erm,

Cat attacks are one of the most common causes of bat casualties.

http://www.bats.org.uk/pages/cat_attack ... ators.html

[glallotments]

Dare I mention shale gas?

Fracking shale gas - more carbon emissions, earthquakes in populated areas, possible pollution of groundwater

The problem is though that too many people have vested interests and take a view accordingly. We then have to somehow try to sift through the information offered by people with their own agendas and try and get to the truth of the matter. Often only one side of the argument is being promoted so even worse we don’t get the full raft of information and so can’t make a rational decision.

To be honest I don’t trust that the people who make decisions on these things are always coming to conclusions for the right reasons.

[robo]

i spend a lot of time in spain, we have wind farms all around our finca as it is half way up a mountain i think the figures used are way over the top, we have no shortage of eagles and vultures around us in fact my neighbours cat was taken by eagles at easter last year, its just a ploy by the anti windmill brigade

[Monika]

Alan, I think there is one alternative you haven't mentioned and this to use less energy! I am horrified by the amount of commercial lights (advertising, security lights left in all hours rather than being movement triggered, office lights kept on all night just to make a building look more attractive, floodlighting on sports fields etc etc). Do people really need to put up fancy lights in their gardens? It just light-pollutes the atmosphere and uses lots of energy.

And why do we get ever taller and brighter street lights in the countryside? Cars have their own lights and pedestrians can use torches (not that there are many pedestrians about nowadays - I recently walked right through our large village at 8.30pm and did not see a single person).

Rant over.

[Monika]

Sorry, folks, I am back again, this time slightly more positive: a few businesses around here are now harnessing the water power of becks off the moor and are doing very well. Could that not be further explored? After all, Scotland produces much electricity through hydro-schemes as do countries like Switzerland and Austria, perhaps we could do it on a smaller scale. Every little helps.

And just to be contrary: I like wind farms and don't think they are nearly as wildlife unfriendly as their opponents make out.

[darkbrowneggs]

I rememeber seeing a program on some young scientists in Scandanavia somewhere I think, who had utilized the properties of egg membrane only letting water one way and set up cells with salt water and fresh water. Looked a really promising experiment - it was on coastal estuaries with river water and salt water readily available

[glallotments]

[quote
Erm,

Cat attacks are one of the most common causes of bat casualties.

http://www.bats.org.uk/pages/cat_attack ... ators.html[/quote]

Point taken but I would be more interested if they had actual numbers. I can't see the attacks being high enough to pose a threat to the species. On the same website as you quote I found the attached passage.

[Tony Hague]

I rather agree with almost everything you said in your earlier post glallotments, with regard vested interests. I'm sure that the figures on the sites I posted links to are presented in order to best make their case, but the point being that the large-sounding numbers in the argument against wind turbines need to be kept in perspective, and taken as part of the overall impact of human activites. There is no harmless method of power generation. I suppose from a wildlife point of view, nuclear power is perhaps the best bet, because it has proved very effective at creating at least a couple of human exclusion zones

[PLUMPUDDING]

I notice the article doesn't quote much about bird and bat casualties in Britain.

I'm not saying they don't occur, but the developers have to have environmental consultations and surveys before they site the windfarms in this country, and can be turned down if it is shown that they are in a migration path or that the area supports any rare or endangered species which would be affected by installing the wind turbines. The consultants also monitor the sites after the turbines have been installed and there are no or very few carcasses found. So at least consideration is given to wildlife in this country.

Funny how when we've only just been encouraged to change to low energy light bulbs that now they're promoting LED bulbs which use even less and last much longer, and also how much they cost. The manufacturers are certainly doing their best to make lots of profits.

Also Monika's comments about people not walking anywhere, I was saying exactly the same to my friend this morning. I'd walked down to the shops half a mile away and only passed one person. It is the same when we walk in the countryside, and why don't people (usually younger ones) meet your eye and say hello when they pass you and you are the only people for miles around? I'm sure a small 60 year old woman can't look very menacing.

We all know what the problem is regarding energy, there are too many people being too wasteful, and no government is going to promote population control. We'll probably go the way of the vast starling populations and run out of food before the powers that be react.

Anyway, I'm going to happily carry on growing my own and doing my best to live in a considerate and environmentally friendly way and hope there are enough other like minded people to make a difference.

Happy New Year