Beware of broadband fed via cable companies as this is via a shared fibre optic cable and thus the more people who are online the slower the service. Bandwidth figures quoted are very often an optimum and you will end up with a lot less.
With traditional companies like BT you have your own individual cable going back to the exchange and nobody else will have an effect on your bandwidth.
You pays your money and take your choice.
Slow Forum
Moderators: KG Steve, Chantal, Tigger, peter, Chief Spud
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pigletwillie
- KG Regular
- Posts: 723
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:38 pm
- Location: Leicestershire
Kindest regards Piglet
"You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind".
"You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind".
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Colin Miles
- KG Regular
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:18 pm
- Location: Llannon, Llanelli
Ok - good comment. Which ISP's use shared cable optic fibre? The reason I am interested in dud ISP's is because the new Carphone Warehouse offer looks very tempting.
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Guest
Hello Colin
Sorry to wade in again, but it is so difficult to refrain when in the business and seeing the reality from behind the scenes.
Your best bet is to have a look at http://www.adslguide.org.uk/ (scroll down on the first news page) for further info on Talk Talk. This will also give you info on customer service levels of many suppliers. An independant source too. Essentially what Talk Talk are doing is signing people up on this deal, but with no commitment to when they will supply broadband. Do check this. You could sign up with them and then not get the broadband component for months. I have heard of customers being told it will be three months or more, before they get the broadband. Also, the definition of broadband is still only 128 Kbps (very slow by standards today) so that is all they have to provide. The fact that 'normal' speeds are now much faster, is irrelevant. Talk Talk are also signing customers up for a minimum 18 month period, so be very sure they are supplying what you think they are. Read the Ts & Cs very, very carefully. And ask lots of questions re support costs, etc. I appreciate you appear to have had few problems with your current supplier, but the real measure of an ISP is when you do have problems and how they deal with it. Unfortunately, this is a very complicated area and it is difficult to educate people to everything they should be aware of. For instance, routers are often needed to capitalise on speeds faster than 2MB, i.e the new 'up to' 8Mb services. Yet suppliers often lure people in with offers of free USB modems, which will simply not do the job. Buyer beware. Sadly (and understandably), when people don't understand what they're buying, they buy on price. Re cable companies there is only one. NTL. Blueyonder, Telewest and NTL are all NTL companies. Contention isses (numbers of users) is not an issue for BT or NTL. It is more of an issue for Datastream and LLU broadband products.
For cheap phone calls, have a look at Sipgate (www.sipgate.co.uk), where you use your broadband connection to make phone calls over the Internet. No set up costs. And calls 1.2p/min for local calls. Only 1.8p/min for Australia. Just a thought so you can make informed comparisons.
Goodness, my messages are getting longer and longer on this subject. Apologies in advance if it is all becoming a bit tedious, but hope it helps just a little.
Sorry to wade in again, but it is so difficult to refrain when in the business and seeing the reality from behind the scenes.
Your best bet is to have a look at http://www.adslguide.org.uk/ (scroll down on the first news page) for further info on Talk Talk. This will also give you info on customer service levels of many suppliers. An independant source too. Essentially what Talk Talk are doing is signing people up on this deal, but with no commitment to when they will supply broadband. Do check this. You could sign up with them and then not get the broadband component for months. I have heard of customers being told it will be three months or more, before they get the broadband. Also, the definition of broadband is still only 128 Kbps (very slow by standards today) so that is all they have to provide. The fact that 'normal' speeds are now much faster, is irrelevant. Talk Talk are also signing customers up for a minimum 18 month period, so be very sure they are supplying what you think they are. Read the Ts & Cs very, very carefully. And ask lots of questions re support costs, etc. I appreciate you appear to have had few problems with your current supplier, but the real measure of an ISP is when you do have problems and how they deal with it. Unfortunately, this is a very complicated area and it is difficult to educate people to everything they should be aware of. For instance, routers are often needed to capitalise on speeds faster than 2MB, i.e the new 'up to' 8Mb services. Yet suppliers often lure people in with offers of free USB modems, which will simply not do the job. Buyer beware. Sadly (and understandably), when people don't understand what they're buying, they buy on price. Re cable companies there is only one. NTL. Blueyonder, Telewest and NTL are all NTL companies. Contention isses (numbers of users) is not an issue for BT or NTL. It is more of an issue for Datastream and LLU broadband products.
For cheap phone calls, have a look at Sipgate (www.sipgate.co.uk), where you use your broadband connection to make phone calls over the Internet. No set up costs. And calls 1.2p/min for local calls. Only 1.8p/min for Australia. Just a thought so you can make informed comparisons.
Goodness, my messages are getting longer and longer on this subject. Apologies in advance if it is all becoming a bit tedious, but hope it helps just a little.
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Colin Miles
- KG Regular
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:18 pm
- Location: Llannon, Llanelli
Many thanks Chez. Exactly the sort of information I wanted.
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Mr Potato Head
Sorry Piglet - whichever ADSL connection you go for (including BT!), your service will be affected by the number of customers that are using the service at the same time. It's called 'contention ratio' - typically home services have a ratio of about 1:50 and business lines about 1:20
What it means is the maximum number of 'others' that can share the service provided at the exchange. In practice, it's very rare that you'll be actually getting 1/50th of the service you expect, but it could happen!
This is why when you measure your download speeds for your so-called 2Mbs line, you get them in Kbs!
I'd heartily recommend PCPitStop to test your PC (no Macs though, sorry!)
What it means is the maximum number of 'others' that can share the service provided at the exchange. In practice, it's very rare that you'll be actually getting 1/50th of the service you expect, but it could happen!
This is why when you measure your download speeds for your so-called 2Mbs line, you get them in Kbs!
I'd heartily recommend PCPitStop to test your PC (no Macs though, sorry!)
Hello Mr Potato Head
Not nearly as simple as that, I am afraid. You are correct in theory re the 1:50 consumer, 1:20 business lines. However, it is all in the way BT manage the lines. 1:50 is the maximum contention ratio BT will allow. In practice most consumer lines are managed at a ratio of 1:26. - a mathematical thing I wasn't going to get into, but to correct any misunderstanding will do. BT's equation is to connect 400 users to 8 connection lines, hence the 1:50 contention ratio. In practice, it is highly unlikely ever to be the case that 8/400 users will be on downloading at full capacity at the precise second as each other. The average user is using 10 minutes of bandwidth in a month. This is why it is so mathematically implausible for contention to be an issue with an IPStream provider - which BT is. It is important to note there are four different types of broadband - IPStream, Datastream, LLU and Cable. IPStream is always supplied from BT Wholesale to an enormous number of providers, of which BT Retail is just one. Re Datastream and LLU (Local Loop Unbundled), these are managed differently and the vast number of service complaints on industry message boards come from customers of these guys. No issue with Cable company customers either.
The reason you get your download service speed in Kbps is nothing to do with not getting your full speed. Mb is purely a marketing term. Kbps is standard industry measure of speed. 2000Kbps = 2Mb, for instance. So even if you are getting 2Mb on your 2Mb connection, it will still be stated as 2000Kbps. Actually, it will be stated as 2048Kbps as this is the accurate speed. The reason speeds do not reach the maximum stated is nothing to do with contention ratios (apart from the problems with how lines have been managed by Datastream and LLU suppliers), but is due to signal strength across and/or distance from the exchange on a given line. I am bored with myself now! Think I'll leave this thread well alone from hereon in.
Not nearly as simple as that, I am afraid. You are correct in theory re the 1:50 consumer, 1:20 business lines. However, it is all in the way BT manage the lines. 1:50 is the maximum contention ratio BT will allow. In practice most consumer lines are managed at a ratio of 1:26. - a mathematical thing I wasn't going to get into, but to correct any misunderstanding will do. BT's equation is to connect 400 users to 8 connection lines, hence the 1:50 contention ratio. In practice, it is highly unlikely ever to be the case that 8/400 users will be on downloading at full capacity at the precise second as each other. The average user is using 10 minutes of bandwidth in a month. This is why it is so mathematically implausible for contention to be an issue with an IPStream provider - which BT is. It is important to note there are four different types of broadband - IPStream, Datastream, LLU and Cable. IPStream is always supplied from BT Wholesale to an enormous number of providers, of which BT Retail is just one. Re Datastream and LLU (Local Loop Unbundled), these are managed differently and the vast number of service complaints on industry message boards come from customers of these guys. No issue with Cable company customers either.
The reason you get your download service speed in Kbps is nothing to do with not getting your full speed. Mb is purely a marketing term. Kbps is standard industry measure of speed. 2000Kbps = 2Mb, for instance. So even if you are getting 2Mb on your 2Mb connection, it will still be stated as 2000Kbps. Actually, it will be stated as 2048Kbps as this is the accurate speed. The reason speeds do not reach the maximum stated is nothing to do with contention ratios (apart from the problems with how lines have been managed by Datastream and LLU suppliers), but is due to signal strength across and/or distance from the exchange on a given line. I am bored with myself now! Think I'll leave this thread well alone from hereon in.
The cow is of the bovine ilk
One end is moo, the other, milk.
One end is moo, the other, milk.
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Mr Potato Head
... there's an interesting bit about why sometimes KB's are 2000 or 2048 bytes... 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilobits
Cheers tho' Chez for the clarification...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilobits
Cheers tho' Chez for the clarification...
. You have outdone yourself Mr PH. I consider myself well and truly 'out-pedenticked' 
.