New to Espaliers - Help Needed

[Smurfy]

I've just moved house and to my absolute joy now have a lovely large garden (will post pictures at some point). With the hope of starting a family soon i don't want to convert the whole of the garden to veggies or plants but am hoping to convert the bottom third to a veggie patch. This will give me a space roughly 12mx20m.

I was thinking about creating an espalier 'fence' between the veggie plot and the rest of the garden but i have never tried to grow fruit trees never mind espalier or prune. So my questions are:

How easy is it to espalier using maidens? (costs mean that this is the only option open to me)
How much space will i need between trees?
What are the best trees to use (both fruit type and variety)?
What root stock should i use?

Is there anything else i should know or consider?

Sorry the bombarding of questions but i want to make sure i consider all the options before i spend all this money.

[peter]

How easy is it to espalier using maidens? (costs mean that this is the only option open to me)
Very easy, about two years for the first level, then a year per level.

How much space will i need between trees?
About ten feet, plus or minus two feet to taste/style/wallet.

What are the best trees to use (both fruit type and variety)?
Pretty much whatever you want in the way of apples and/or pears, which are the two fruit types normally grown this way.
Subject to the mix of varieties being compatible for pollination.

What root stock should i use?
A dwarfing or semi-dwarfing one.

Is there anything else i need to know or consider?
You'll need:
Ties or soft string to attach the side shoots to.
Canes to gradually bring that years growth down to horizontal while still soft.
A post and wire frame to keep the shoots straight and the same height in a row, helps appearance.

Autumn pruning of the vertical to get three buds to grow the following spring, starting a little lower than the wire as the horizontals form a shape like the top of an r, going up to final level from the vertical.

Summer pruning, pinching with nails of side shoots from horizontals to contain length of sideshoot growth and rubbing off of unwanted sideshoots from the vertical.

Once attached to wire allow further horizontal growth sideways to aim up, before tying down to wire, it allows the end shoot to dominate the rest and grow well.

Once last rung height is attained only allow the two horizontals to shoot. Though a spare could be useful.

Horizontals can split and/or snap off as bent down, so be gentle and don't leave it too late.

Remember to remove & replace ALL string & ties yearly, I missed one last year and last week two foot snapped off the top right where the growing horizontal was being strangled in the string.

Take advice from both RHS "The Fruit Garden Displayed" for how to grow them and Keepers Nursery website for compatible varieties and best rootstock.

I have 1 Bramley & 1 Catshead, both cooking apples.

PS get your ideas straight & order soon for bare root dormant delivery this winter.

Enjoy.

[Nature's Babe]

Peter describes the principles well, I recently trained a maiden cherry that way, when choosing the maiden tree buy one with suitably placed branches
to start you off, if you can't plant it immediately make an A frame with canes and as many cross bars as needed. Consider using rootgrow to aid the trees establishment. Prepare the planting hole carefully, and tease out the roots if they are a bit pot bound. If you train it yourself it will save quite a bit of money, trained espaliers are quite a bit more expensive.
If you have a garden path consider arches over the path for training more fruit.

[Smurfy]

Thanks Peter and Naturesbabe for your help. I'm now eager to get going but think i'll just take it steady. The master plan is 10 small beds 'fenced' off from the main garden with these espalier fruit trees but just going to dig one or two and then once i get going with them then dig some more out as i've read on here that the danger is you can can get too giddy, dig everything out and then get burnout.

Had a very enjoyable couple of evenings on the web looking at possible varieties. As i'm 'up norf' i'm going for:

Apples - Greensleeves and Katy
Pears - Beth and Conference

Do people have opinions on these? I really fancied Egremont Russet too but read that it suffers from bitter pit and was a bit worried about it.

Sorry i have too many questions!

[Nature's Babe]

I like an egremont russet, the plus is the blossom is frost tolerant.
Cause and pros and cons here

http://static.which.net/documents/pdf/b ... 151471.pdf

I would think a mulch round the tree to conserve water, and some rootgrow
when planting would help mitigate the chance of calcium deficiency as the mycorrhizae assist the tree with the uptake of both nutrients and water.
mine has been planted 4 years and no sign of bitter pit and we had a very dry spring.

[Smurfy]

Thanks for the help. Putting my order in tonight so no doubt the next questions will be about pruning next year

[Smurfy]

Sorry to bump this one back up to the top but i have a further question.

In for a penny in for a pound i've now decided to make an apple tree arch to make the entrance to the plot (original plan was to have an arch with a passion flower but given the recent cold winters and lack of shelter i've changed my plan...plus i'm an apple fiend so more apples is a real plus )

However the two varieties i'm looking at have different vigour. Does that matter? if so do i have to buy them each on different rootstocks or is there another way of doing it? Is it all in the pruning etc?

Am i right in thinking i could start with a 2 year old tree to do this with? can i let it crop before it has achieved the finished shape or is it like espaliers and do i have to wait until it's acheived the final shape?

Sooo many questions - sorry all.

[Nature's Babe]

Good luck with your arch Smurfy, these are usually constructed on a metal arch the trees on dwarfing rootstock and i year olld whips trained over it.
Different vigour can present problems, a very vigorous one could disrupt the harmony, overpoewering others. Consider staggering harvest and keeping qualities too, some early some mids and some late.

http://www.barnsdalegardens.co.uk/gardens/apple-arch

[peter]

There is no restriction on cropping before the final shape is achieved with espaliers or other Apple & Pear trained shapes.

Best to use an identical pair for the aesthetically pleasing harmony of a balanced arch

[Smurfy]

Thanks very much for these replies and thanks Peter for the info re cropping on espaliers i thought i would have to wait 4 or 5 years before getting fruit from my trees so you've just made my day!!

I'll have another look at what tree types i might like and see what i can copme up with. Might be back with a small list and look for advice on the best pairing.

Thanks again

[Urban Fox]

"What are the best trees to use (both fruit type and variety)?"

If you're happy to wait - you'll find there are apple tastings all over the country in October.
You can go along and taste a wide variety of apples and then choose ones you know you'll enjoy growing. Plus there are usually experts on hand to answer your questions.

I see you are in Sheffield - so check and see if the RHS is doing a tasting at Harlow Carr.
http://www.rhs.org.uk/gardens/harlow-carr/what-s-on
last years event was ...."A packed festival including a display of over 200 varieties of apples all grown in Northern England, as well as apple tasting, advice and identification. Apple Day takes place in conjunction with the Northern Fruit Group. Information: Margaret Drury (01423 770111). [email protected]"

there is a list of the 2010 days here
http://www.england-in-particular.info/c ... vents.html
hopefully they will update soon. But it will give you an idea what is on in your area.

otherwise just google .... apple tasting days 2011

we go to the tasting at RHS Wisley every year and it is a really great day out. All of these pictures on our blog page was taken at the tasting day
http://f1f11.blogspot.com/2010/11/seaso ... lness.html

Christina

[Smurfy]

Great Idea, thanks Christina.

I'll also drag my dad along as i've now pursuaded him to plant some espaliers against a fence in his garden so he wants 4 trees too.

[Smurfy]

Just slept on this idea. definately going to an apple tasting day but will october be too late to get my order in for this year planting?

Been having a look and of the varieties i'm keeping an eye these two pairings keep coming back to me as distinct possibilities:

Falstaff and Egremont Russett
or
Lord lambourne and James Grieve

Anyone any suggestions on a practical front re rootstock, ability to form the arch shape, vitality/sizes etc etc?

[Urban Fox]

late autumn and winter are usually seen as the best time to plant apple trees - so waiting for the apple tasting days in Oct - is probably a good thing.

http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/pro ... px?PID=237

Christina

[peter]

Smurfy, check nursery websites, Keepers used to advise on ordering dates, I'm afraid that it also depends on what varieties you pick.