PROPAGATORS

[Chantal]

I've been reading this thread with interest as I use propagators a great deal at this time of year. However, assuming I've not used individual cells, what do I do if just a few of the seeds have germinated and are romping away, while the rest take ages to catch up? Should I leave them in the propagator or take them out? The seedlings are a little small to prick out but are getting a bit leggy. This relates to my chillies in particular some of which germinated at 6 days; the rest have been poking their heads through for the following 10 days and they're still not all through.

[David]

I have just such a temp guide which was kindly sent to me by one of the contributors to the old site. Sorry I cant remember who off the top of my head.

It lists max/min and optimum germination temps for a load of common seeds in old and new money.

I can scan it and send it by email to anyone who wants it. my email is: davidball674athotmail.com (you know to replace the at with a @ dont you?)

Hope this helps

David

[Johnboy]

Hi David,
It was me that sent you the Germination Table which I assume the one that Allan is rferring to.
I actually sent over 40 in the end and most of which were to I assume were 'Readers Only' because I didn't know them.
That table really needs no conversions so I am at a loss with Allans posting. Perhaps he can explain what he was trying to do and we can all find a solution.
Should anybody want a copy I can photocopy and send one or with my new Printer, which does everything but the washing up, send a copy by E-mail.
Simply PM me.
Chantal, one of my propagators has no light and for things like Parsley I mass sow (broadcast) across the top of a 576 module tray, pop into the prop and when a few wispies shoot up I remove from the prop and stand on the bench in an un heated tunnel and cover with fleece and within a few days all the rest come through. It seems although they may not be showing the dormancy has been broken and they will grow on well fron that point.
Allan, Vernalising is one of the ways of breaking dormancy but that is the cold treatment there are other methods especially for those that need heat as we know and there are those that need super heat.

[Allan]

The table I had from the Moles catalogue IS in Farenheit. It actually states the Centigrade equivalents,minimum, maximum and optimum e.g.35F=1.7C,40F=4.0C,50F=10.0C,60F=15.6C, 70F=21.1C etc, all odd numbers. Nothing at 45F. In other words you have approximate temperatures to one-tenth of a degree C. Savvy?
29 varieties listed, I don't grow okra or swede in or out, I do grow pak choi, komatsuna, chicories,montia and watercress of course .
Allan

[Allan]

For onions I picked this upfrom Medwyn. The temperature is surprisingly high

http://www.medwynsofanglesey.co.uk/Articles/971224.htm

Apart from that, so far just the same old info in various formats.As USA is the main source it's all in Fahrenheit
There is a posh reference book that purports to give data for vegetable growers, lowest price is £46, no thank you.

[Carole B.]

All these different temps might be the ideal for seed germinating but in the real world who's got upteem different propagators to set at all these temps at roughly the same time? In general plants which grow on at higher temps like cues,toms and peppers enjoy a bit of bottom heat to get going but the hardier stuff can do it without,it might just take a bit longer.After all if onions only germinated at high temps we couldn't sow them outdoors.
I think prospective gardeners could easily be put off growing their own by presuming that it's all too complicated.
Carole.

[richard p]

no seed will grow in the packet, if its stuck in compost in a pot its got a better chance even if the conditions arn't ideal. anyway theres no gaurentee that the bloke who wrote down the ideal conditions got it right.

[oldherbaceous]

Well said Richard' i quiet agree.

Kind regards Old herbaceous.

It will either rain or get dark.

[David]

Thank you John boy you are right it was you, when I got back upto the house I had written your name and the date on the back - odd thing to do I guess.

I use that sheet a lot as its not all second nature to me yet and I'm sure many begginers will get comfort and a sense of confidence from applying it. I dont have a heated propagator yet but I do have a boiler room for the house and I regulate its temperature using a max/min thermometer and a half brick to wedge the door open!

Best wishes, David.

ps It was 28 degrees in the greenhouse yesterday!

[Iain]

I think this is a potentially very helpful thread. If I've grasped the point correctly it attempts to address a problem that I've anticipated having with my new, unheated polytunnel. As I understand it, many cvs require artificial heat if they're to be started early enough to mature in our climate.However, having germinated them in heat we can't then immediately subject them to the shock of unheated conditions. Given that, realistically, we're likely to have more trays/pots than can be comfortably accomodated on adequately-lit windowsills, where do we put them till the weather warms enough for them to be moved into unheated tunnel/greenhouse or be planted out. Required temperatures for both these intermediate stages would be a great help, to me at any rate. It was my plan to erect one of those wee 6x8 plastic growhouses inside my tunnel and put a light and a heater in it.That MIGHT be big enough but it might not! I hope I haven't missed the point! Apropos of the type of light required, I've been told by a knowledgeable bloke I know that an ordinary fluorescent tube is all you need. I'd thought you required an expensive "growlight". I'm sure Jb and Allan can answer that one too.

[Jude]

with ref to sandersj89 post earlier,
I've unearthed an unused aquarium with a new 'flora-glo' tube in it and as an (unscientific) experiment have placed a tray of basil inside.
Plan is to have the light on for 12 hours each day and see if there is any acceleration in growth - the seed germinated well but has ground to a halt - only the beginning of 1st true leaves evident after about 3 weeks in front of a south facing window though temp. relatively stable at about 20 deg C daytime.

[Allan]

The best info that I have found so far is from 'Big A'
www/seedsman.com/veggerm.htm
Once again in Fahrenheit but the plants listed are very useful.
I'm a spoilt so-and-sow as I now have 3 propogators online plus general heat in my 25'x10' home greenhouse. At least the general temperature has only to keep the frost out so it is economical. All the output goes to the next step, automatic vented house with no heat then if necessary a flowhouse that the wind blows through. We keep the Japanese onions in the latter in pots all winter, they go outside just before spring growth sets in.
On passing, when I had the propogator in the bedroom even near the window the seedlings always grew tall and leaned towards the window so I put reflectors at the back but it made no discernible difference. My opinion is that you can bend the seasons just a bit but outright conflict with the natural way of things is expensive and leads to failure in the end.
Allan

[Allan]

I haven't any firsthand experience of the lighting so can only go by hearsay. I would have thought the aquarium-type of tube for fluorescents would be better than the domestic ones because of its higher UV output, my aquarium weeds did fairly well on that. One hears from enthusiasts that shoestring lighting is marvellous but one tends not to hear about failures, it isn't human nature to report them.The commercials use sodium or mercury ones but they are expensive and even so have to be very near the crop to have an effect. Now we are passing the Equinox I would have thought all-round natural light totally satisfactory. Over to Johnboy?

[Iain]

Allan,
I take your point about passing the equinox but for the hobbyist, the second stage- the growing on before final planting- is going to be under a heat-retaining cover, in my case a polytunnel within a polytunnel, so I guess the light lost would need to be artificially replaced as far as possible...?

[Carole B.]

I should be careful about extending the length of day as plants like onions base their bulbing-up reflex on day length,if they think it's past mid-summer you might have mini-onions!I'm uncertain if other plants have any reactions to day length but it's worth bearing in mind.
You'll probably better off using Gro-lux tubes as a suppliment to natural light and turning it off when the sun goes down.
Carole.