PROPAGATORS

General tips / questions on seeding & planting

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Johnboy
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I do believe that Propagators are being employed when there is no need.
If you have got the facilities to deal with the plant when it has germinated to the next step of it’s evolution that is fine but if you haven’t then I feel that the quality of the plant you are going to produce will be inferior on several counts.
Certainly propagators have there uses and I for one have used them for more than 30 years. Generally speaking when the seeds have germinated they need to be put into an area of reduced heat immediately if not sooner. I say immediately because if they have germinated when you go to work and you do nothing then by the time you come home from work in many cases it is too late and the seeds are over the top. To my mind it is as critical as that. I have absolute no doubt that there will be people that will vehemently disagree with that statement which is really the whole reason for this posting.
Can we calmly discuss this topic and try between us all to thrash out a ‘Best Practice Document’ to the benefit of us all.
JB.
Jude
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I agree with you Johnboy,
I don't have a propogator, but I germinate my seeds on top of my tropical fish tank which keeps them at a steady temp of about 20 deg C. As soon as they come up they go onto my kitchen windowsill in good light and I get good strong plants.
Jude

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richard p
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i take them out of the heat as soon a they are up, either to the windowsil or an unheated tunnel. at that stage light seems to be as important as warmth.
the heated propogater only gets used for stuff such as toms, peppers, cucumber early corgette etc, most years it would be off by now and subsequent sowings just be in trays in the tunnel.
sandersj89
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Interesting topic and I have to say I have never used a propogator as such. I do use clear covers on seed trays but only until germination and these are then removed.

But I germinate nearly all my seeds in a heated greenhouse and light is not so much of an issue.

Jerry
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Sally
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I'm interested to hear what people say about this. I have recently acquired two propagators and thought I was giving my seedlings the best possible start... But now that you mention it I have found that seedlings go leggy very quickly in them. They are fabulous for getting the seeds going quickly, however.

My windowsills are very draughty so I might try transferring them into an unheated propagator first.
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peter
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I always use an electric single full tray sized propogator for my Squash, at £1.99 for 6 seeds I've found its the only way to ensure a decent germination rate. As soon as they emerge from the compost I move them off the heated base and leave them in un-heated trays with clear plastic lids.

No greenhouse, north-facing & sloping garden, allotment in same alignment and all hosed by the wind. Oh and the wife hates me using the windowsills. :evil:
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Geoff
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I agree also. In another post about chillies (we could have an endless thread on how to spell that) I mentioned sowing individually or maybe 2 per pot in very small pots so they can be moved asap with minimum disturbance to them or the ungerminated ones. Takes less time than pricking out.
Do people get on better with propagators with lights? I've often thought of using an old fish tank light but nobody seems to able to tell me if it will work.
sandersj89
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I use a light system in the greenhouse but not over propogators.

Lights from a fish tank might work but it depends on the bulb, ideally you want one that works in the blue spectrum of light as this is what is needed for vegetative growth.

For flourescent lights you also have to position very close to the plants for maximum benefits. My lights sit just a few inches above the plant tops.

HTH

Jerry
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fran n tony

I posted because we were having problems with our seedlings getting too leggy but now we know what we were doing wrong, not enough light and not moving them to somewhere cooler quick enough. This type of gardening is a new experience for us but I think we have learned something so all is not bad. We have 2 allotment plots, a 8x6 heated greenhouse, a 14x10 unheated greenhouse and a 20x10 unheated polytunnel so I think we have plenty of space, it just doesn't seem like we have sometimes????? lol
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oldherbaceous
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I TOTALY DISAGREE WITH JONHBOY.
I bet that got you lot going.
Actualy i think Johnboy has really hit the nail on the head this time, and i think the weather this year is really proving the point. I think a lot of people are getting good germination in their propagators but either leaving the seedlings in to long or bringing out in to conditions that are to cold. The last few years have been that mild that there had been no problem keeping the greehouses fairly warm. But this year it's a lot colder. So your going to need a bit more heat for a bit longer.
I'm sure propagators are very handy for getting them seeds that need that extra heat to germinate but not all seeds need one.
I seem to remember when i was younger none of us had a propagator and we still had very good germination and the plants were good and stout and not drawn and leggy. I also wonder if we are all trying to plant things out before they have hardened of properly.
If the weather dosen't warm up soon i think everyones greenhouses are going to be bulging.

Kind regards Old herbaceous.

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Jude
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Spot on I reckon Oldherbacious, we're all just too flippin' keen and I suspect it's got a lot to do with the huge surge of interest in gardening and 'lifestyle' in general. When growing veg was a necessity rather than a pastime I think people were a lot more cautious(that spelling doesn't look quite right but can't be bothered to check, sorry) as they couldn't risk losing valuable seed or time. Anyone agree?
Jude

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Tigger
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Yes - I think so Jude. We're always trying to get ahead and beat the system by adding heat or increasing the hours of light. We're first to criticise farmers for battery rearing but that's just what we're doing with many of our plants.

Mind you - I was the one boasting about how early my tomatoes fruited last year and how long I kept them going!
Allan
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If we want to get this sorted out surely a first step would be to construct a table, or list if you like, giving the minimum, optimum and maximum temperature that seeds need to germinate and go on to aftercare temperatures. There was one such in the DT Brown/Moles seeds catalogue. I kept a copy and did some work converting the temperatures but it got rather messy because of the crudity of the original data. Also important is whether the seeds need light to germinate, and a mention of seeds that need special treatment to break dormancy (is that vernalisation?). I think you are right inasmuch as too many people think the propogator is a cure-all and everything must be cooked there regardless of variety. More Googling required on this one.
Carole B.
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I have a small windowsill type propagator which is in the heated greenhouse,it only does the one temperature,ie:- 'on',which is probably the same for a lot of us.I find it works well if you keep a close eye on germinating seedlings.When they've two seed leaves up then the clear lid comes off and 2 or 3 days after that,depending on what it is and how well it's getting away,I remove them from the heated base and stand them in the greenhouse in good light conditions to firm up a bit before I pot them on.
It is a big advantage to have a heated greenhouse,this is only the second year I have had this and it makes life so much easier.I bought a small electric fan heater from the Organic Garden Catalogue and on it's lowest setting it has not let the temp drop below 50F (sorry,still working in old money!)in a bubble lined 8x12 greenhouse.
Carole.
sandersj89
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Allan

There are a few tables out there on the net such as this one on this page:

http://www.seedman.com/veggerm.htm#germin

Might be of use though the data looks fairly old.

Jerry
Farmers son looking to get back to the land full time one day.....

Holiday in Devon? Come stay with us: http://www.crablakefarm.co.uk/
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