Green manures

[Deb P]

Not wishing to hijack another thread; could someone please advise which green manures could I use to help keep some cleared beds covered overwinter? I do not know what has been grown on the plot previously in some areas, in the last two years just rough grass and weeds.

[sprout]

Red clover for me - the cold kills it so it becomes a mulch overwinter.
One of my friends grows spinach! Seriously, they get crops overwinter and into spring (under mesh), and figure that just growing something is good for the soil. When it bolts in spring, it goes into the compost heap
If you're into digging, grazing rye is good for the soil structure, lovely deep roots. You cut it down and dig in.

I have covered newly cleared beds with cardboard and temporary black plastic very successfully - learning from experience to weigh it down firmly!

[John]

Hello Deb
As you've just got your beds back into shape can I suggest you just leave them exposed this winter and give the green manures a miss for a year? Leave the ground roughly dug and let the winter weather do some work for you. It should help kill off weed seeds and also the frost will improve the soil structure. If we get a winter mild spell it would be a chance to fork out anything you might have missed. Also you'll be able to add manure and lime (not at the same time!). If you've got green manures established you won't be able to do any work on the soil until about April time.

John

PS Did you get an Azada?

[Allan]

This may help
Allan

http://www.kitchengardens.dial.pipex.co ... manure.htm

[Carole B.]

If it's been grass and weeds you may want to leave it turned up rough for the winter to give the birds a chance to clear out things like wireworm otherwise they'll be into your potatoes next year.It's always worse after it's been grass.

[Deb P]

Thanks for all the advice; yes John, azada on order!

[Mike Vogel]

Well, Deb, I became converted to green manures after reading Joy Larkcoms book about Organic vegetable growing. I use Phacelia tenacetifolia and it really does produce a thick lot of growth. I grew dwarf beans afterwards and they did famously. I also recommend red clover and alfalfa, sown in spring, for where you are going to put brassicas in the autumn, but if you want to fix nitrogen during the winter then vetch [also called winter tares] is great because it is hardy, so sow it in the autumn and let it overwinter. I also use Hungarian Rye grass where beans will grow the following summer. Thjis also overwinters.

Then there is the old favourite, mustard. This germinates very quickly. I use it in the autumn where I intend to grow spuds next year. Apparently when it is dug in it feeds the eelworm and wireworm grubs, which mature early and fly away before the tubers are ready for them to devastate.

Be careful, though. Hungarian Rye and Winter tares both have the effect of suppressing germination of seed. So I avoid these where I am going to sow carrots or lettuces directly into the soil. I use Phacelia or Buckwheat instead.

I hope this helps.

mike

[Elderflower]

This all sounds very interesting! I`ve got quite a lot of empty beds this winter (if you see what I mean!) Where can I buy the seed for green manures?

[oldherbaceous]

Good evening my dear Elderflower, you can obtain green manure seeds from the Organic Gardening catalgue. Online. www.OrganicCatalogue.com
Hope this helps.

Kind regards Old Herbaceous.

We will always get some sort of weather.

[Elderflower]

Thanks OH - if I may make so bold as to use your diminutive!

[Garlic_Guy]

Great list of choices so far.

Can I add Fenugreek? In the past, I've only ever seen the seeds for this in the kitchen, but 2 sowings last month have shot up and are already around 4-6" tall. The bonus? You get a supply of fresh "Methi" (useful if you're into Indian cookery).

Apart from that, I've also sown some dwarf french beans this year. It may be getting a bit late for any more now, but I thought I might as well try these as Field Beans.

I'd also second the vote for Phaecelia too - had a lovely crop early in the year which I then dug in around my Runner Beans.

Go on - give it a go!

[Monika]

I recently read that flea beetles (or their larvae?) overwinter on winter tares - and we did have lots and lots of them this spring, so this year I am only going to use rye grass as green manure.

[Mike Vogel]

Hi Garlic Guy. I don't think fenugreek does well in our climate, but you might get something out of it next summer. The HDRA booklet says that it is unlikely to fix nitrogen in the UK because the right sort of bacteria are rare in this country. You might get a good bit of bulk from it though.

mike

[Weed]

I am going to try Hungarian Rye, Field Beans and Winter Tares over the winter months.

Incidentally I bought my seed from Ryton (Garden Organics)near Coventry

I will then try some of the spring/summer green manures as and when during the growing year... I am getting quite excited about 2007 already and that's before the seed catalogues come through the door

[Garlic_Guy]

I don't think fenugreek does well in our climate, but you might get something out of it next summer.

I guess you mean it will do better planted earlier in the year Mike?

So far the Fenugreek I planted is about a foot high, so I am more than pleased with it. So long as it's stopping the weeds rampaging, that's major progress for me. Nitrogen would be the cream on the cake.