Decreasing fertility of growing land

[Primrose]

I was looking at my vegetable patch and border the other day and thinking that these days I don't seem to be growing the same quality of crops that I first grew when I dug them out from virgin land about 35 years ago. I realise weather is always an influencing factor.

I know all about the wisdom of leaving land fallow for a while, but in the average size garden plot that really isn't a practical option.

We have a very stony soil here and I do my best to add whatever compost and natural nutrients back I can on an annual basis but are there any specific crops which are good at returning goodness to the soil rather than taking it out? I can't make enough compost to cover my growing area.

Are there any other innovative things I can do to get my nice fertile soil back?.

[robo]

I've never used it myself but the winter green compost seems interesting,plant it in autumn dig it in when winters over

[Westi]

You could try sowing green manures over the winter, on parts of the garden in a rotation, each year, but I've tried that & not a big difference. Maybe get some Pa Snip big bag compost delivered and swop over some of your soil back in the bag for that. Obviously re-checking your soil ph might show a change & can't you send a soil sample away for analysis somewhere, not the cheapest option but certainly would have the facts on soil health.

The other option is get some muck delivered, leave it on the surface overwinter to let the worms do their thing & dig it in the Spring - not that double dig type of digging but just forking to the level of the crops you intend to sow. (Keep an area without for root crops though)! Making friends with a local dairy farmer is best for that, not commercial stuff.

Westi

[Pa Snip]

Hi Primrose

For years now, even before we got the allotment, we have composted just about everything we can.

The contents of the vacuum cleaner, teabags, coffee granules, banana skins, uneaten veg (cooked and raw), grass cuttings, cardboard now and again, shredded paper (in small amounts otherwise it compacts and takes ages), chicken manure from coop. straw and droppings from Poddington Pea's rabbits

NOT meat of any kind or anything in the way of foodstuff that does not breakdown within a day or two so as not to encourage rats. We include bread and cake products on the exclusion list

Because our local council is pretty keen on recycling they provide us with specific bins for food stuffs, these have a handle which locks the lid down. We have one for foodstuff we did not wish to compost and one which goes on one of the compost heaps either in the back garden on or the plot. The contents of these small bins is usually well on its way to rotting down before we even add it to the compost heap

Seems to work for us in keeping soil good, but as the pictures last October showed there are still times when we need to buy in compost now and again

The one thing we have never tried is growing green manure

[Primrose]

I think I need to chat to our local fruit and veg market stallholder and take all his decaying cauliflower stalks and veg off his hands. It might add a little to my compost supply ! I seem to get good tomato crops from my patio containers by digging in my veg and banana skin scraps into the barren compost over winter and as a result I never need to renew the compost in them.

[Geoff]

I felt my yields dipped a bit after a few years but they have picked up again now. Perhaps it is because I have been retired 9 years and have got a bit more consistent in my preparation. Like others I make lots of compost; much of it from grass that is a bit of a battle but with added cardboard, paper and Comfrey it does work. I dig just over half my beds every year (almost all the under cover beds) and add about ½ barrow load to a 10' trench, sometimes I have enough manure to do some beds with that (most goes for soft fruit mulching).
I don't know how much difference it made but I decided to follow some of the hype about trace elements so for a couple of years (until the bag ran out!) so I used some seaweed meal.
What can make the difference is getting your fertiliser right. If you believe this table from the Vegetable Research Station you'll realise that most people don't add enough. They suggested a slightly more scientific approach to fertiliser application based on the idea that different vegetables require different amounts of Nitrogen and that you can use that to select how much Growmore to give them on the following basis:

Peas 0 (I believe a little fertiliser gives them a better start)
Carrots, Radishes 1 oz/sq yard
Broad Beans, Parsnips, Swedes 3 oz/sq yard
Lettuce, Onions 4 oz/sq yard
Calabrese, French Beans, Turnips 4 oz/sq yard
Leeks, Early Potatoes 6 oz/sq yard
Potatoes, Beetroot, Spinach, Cauliflower 8 oz/sq yard
Sprouts, Cabbage 10 oz/sq yard

What we all tend to do I guess is just sprinkle it by eye, not a bad idea to measure an area and weigh out the fertiliser to re-calibrate your eye from time to time. I don't actually follow these figures exactly but also add Potash (for fruit and flowers) and Superphosphate (for roots) separately, I'm convinced that on my soil upping the phosphate has made quite a difference but I have never had a full soil analysis done.
Another point is, you often see instructions that say add "2 ozs per square yard of Growmore or Chicken Manure" (the magazine commits this sin quite often); firstly you will see from above that 2 ozs of Growmore is rarely enough and secondly as Chicken Manure is often 4% Nitrogen compared with Growmore at 7% you are likely to starve your plants this way. 6 ozs per square yard of Growmore translates to over 10 ozs of Chicken Pellets, you'll be amazed how much that looks if you test an area.

[PLUMPUDDING]

That's very useful Geoff. I thought my crops weren't growing as vigorously as they used to after a very wet year so increased everything, compost, farmyard manure and fertilisers, particularly high nitrogen for the brassicas and it made a noticeable difference. I did bear in mind the various specific requirements of things like carrots when applying fertiliser but not down to the amount per square yard. I'll try to follow the specific requirements next year and note how everything responds. I like testing things out.

I've noticed that the peas and beans have only really got going in the past two weeks when the night time temperatures have stayed above 10°

[Ricard with an H]

I used green manure for two consecutive years in just one bed, this bed wasn't showing poor nutrient, rather it needed more organic matter within.

This years strawberries are not doing very well in that bed and even after I added comfrey to the soil as a mulch and for watering from the stinky-bin.

So many things conspiring against us and with us, having "The knowledge" would be useful.

In fact this year has been trying for me all around and Beti doesn't dig into my beds or steal beans or strawberries or carrots. Carrots ? I sowed three times and got three nothing's.

Growing your own is easy Eh ?

[Westi]

I think we can blame the weather this year more than our soil prep! No warmth, too many slugs & snails, blight, mould (dogs) - you name it, it's been the year of challenges! Wouldn't want to be a newbie but then again like us, if we rise above the challenges this year has presented & reflect, we have probably learned quite a bit & will get a reasonable harvest even if a bit late.

I say that optimistically but if those pesky pigeons have touched my squash I may don commando gear & have pigeon pie! Saying that the baby has fledged so hopefully the family have moved away & I have seen a few birds of prey - fingers crossed!

Westi

[Ricard with an H]

During my apprenticeship with you-all I distinctly remember the annual complaints about weeds yet I don't remember until this season that weeds have been a distinct and damaging issue for me. Yes, I have this problem with seed-bank germination that I identified with help from the forum though this years weeds are massive and prolific in species making direct sowing impossible.

I sowed carrot three time and failed to get germination, ill try again on the basis the seeds in the packets are not as healthy as I assume seeds should be.

Wind has broken two of the eight French bean plants at the root, French beans plants are impossibly fragile.

And my strawberry plants appear to have stalled along with Cavello Nero kale, whilst all this difficulty is going on courgettes and curly kale are rampant to the point Im going to dig up some courgette plants and bin them and I already heavily trimmed the kale plants so the compost heap is heaving at a time of year all the invasive grasses and stuff I allow to grow around the borders need trimming back so it'll be a compost-mountain.

What I'm trying to describe is a difficult year with exceptions and I have yet to describe the four rhubarb plants that are mahoosive and forming shade over the comfrey.

Presumably decreasing fertility is a rotational thing and depends on the needs of the crops in the rotation ? kale will have quite different needs to strawberries (For example)

Im now not going to describe this season as difficult, just different.

[Westi]

Hi Richard

Best put some slug pellets around those carrot seeds, it might be those slime guys that caused your failures.

Westi

[Ricard with an H]

Thanks Westi, I hadn't even considered that slugs might be a problem to seeds. Are you suggesting tha slugs Hoover-up the tiny emerging seedlings that are so tiny I couldn't see them ?

I'm not scared or precious about using slug pellets and often see the effects on slugs which gives me confidence.

I'm about to sow seeds for over-wintering crops though my experience with cabbage and those tiny slugs that got in-between the leaves then buried and bored into the cabbages making a right mess. The crop I fancy is sprouting broccoli though it might get too tall for the height of my netting structures.

Back to fertility, because I hammered all my ground with so much cow poo and home compost with sea-weed included I've been using mostly growmore this year, most of the comfrey leaves and stalks are being used as a mulch around what is to become a regular strawberry bed. The comfrey rots down and disappears within a month so hopefully injecting organic matter into the soil, I also have a borage plantation for the same purpose.

Again on the subject of fertility, is mint very hungry. Each year I split and re-plant mint into large pots with new compost and some slow release fertiliser. The plants soon look very happy, bright-green and bushy then they start to go brown and tatty. Is mint a plant that doesn't actually like being in a pot like so many others ? Even though the marketing people continually encourage container gardening there is far to little emphasis on those plants that simply do-not do well in pots other than maybe massive containers. Or is it the compost and I need soil in the mix ? Along with weeds of-course.

I had four different mint plants sent to me by Geoff, I managed to kill three of them and mint is supposed to be a prolific grower. I'm scared to plant it in the garden in case it takes over.

[Westi]

The slugs take the before you even see them Richard - thanks OH for making me sound like I know something! Like you Richard I hadn't considered that & put things down to poor germination.

My mint always starts of all green & lush as you describe & then goes a bit leggy & brown, I think that is normal. What I do now is give 1/2 of it a haircut & cut off any that look like they are trying to flower on both sides, pump up the watering & a wee seaweed foliar feed which perks up the 1/2 left. (It is a bit tougher but full of flavour). The cut 1/2 starts to get wee small leaves which then grow as soft new green growth while the uncut 1/2 starts to go over, which by then is end of the season & then both get a haircut to overwinter. Mine are in a metal trough pot. I can only get 2 years out of it though then I buy in new plants - mostly from the supermarket. They don't get any extra than the fresh compost I plant into & the foliar feed.

Westi

[Ricard with an H]

Thanks Westi, that helps a lot. It's so good to be able to share problems with others, particularly if those others have already either solved the problem or worked around it.

On a very slight digressive shift I have something to share that is loosely on the subject though it includes envy and perhaps even a little avarice, at my age I should have more sense.

A neighbour has a compost heap that isn't used, is almost perfect but they won't gladly let me have it and even worse is they don't use it.

[Pa Snip]

A neighbour has a compost heap that isn't used, is almost perfect but they won't gladly let me have it and even worse is they don't use it.

That's a really crap situation