Non peat based composts

General tips / questions on seeding & planting

Moderators: KG Steve, Chantal, Tigger, peter

Colin2016
KG Regular
Posts: 944
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:33 pm
Location: North Norfolk Coast
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Thanks for the interesting read Johnboy.

"My view is also the heat that the heaps create to make the standard compost (with or without added wood & bits), devoid of living micro organisms essential to plant growth where our garden soil is rich with these & along with worms & stuff."

I have 4 pallet size bays on the go with temps getting up to 60 degrees, when the heaps cool down worms arrive as if by magic.
I end spreading the compost with worms, but wonder if I this is good practice or not.
Monika
KG Regular
Posts: 4546
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:13 pm
Location: Yorkshire Dales

I have often wondered (and in fact asked this question many years ago on this forum) what happens to the worms I spread with my home made compost. Are they just 'compost worms' and die or will they then survive as 'earth worms'? I think it was OH who suggested to ask "Wigglywigglers" (or whatever they are called) for an answer. I did but did not receive a reply. We have a number of books on earthworms but they still don't make it clear to me (or I am too dim to understand).
Westi
KG Regular
Posts: 5908
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Christchurch, Dorset
Has thanked: 671 times
Been thanked: 238 times

Interesting Monika! I try to rescue worms dug up in low grow sites & re-locate them in my beds. Strangely when you harvest from that bed it is the same sort of worms that were there with no sign of the different ones. I believe, (in a newbie post several years ago) I asked if worms were carnivores & ate each other - maybe not, but just each have their own special conditions we don't quite understand.
Westi
User avatar
Geoff
KG Regular
Posts: 5574
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:33 pm
Location: Forest of Bowland
Been thanked: 129 times

Monika
KG Regular
Posts: 4546
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:13 pm
Location: Yorkshire Dales

Interesting, Geoff. I think 'Welshman' on that thread is correct, the earth worms are different and the compost worms die. Well, they will have done their job ......
Colin2016
KG Regular
Posts: 944
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:33 pm
Location: North Norfolk Coast
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 57 times

I have what they call red wriggles' the in compost which are different to earth works.

I seems red wriggles multiply the more food they have in the compost.

The earth worms take the compost down into the soil.

I believe there are even different types of earth worms that live in higher/lower parts of the soil.

I have noticed when I spread compost with red wriggles they stay with the compost until the food source is exhausted, have also noticed earth worm in the compost, which suggest it is ready for spreading on beds.
User avatar
JohnN
KG Regular
Posts: 636
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:45 pm
Location: Hookwood, near Gatwick
Been thanked: 2 times

My compost heap worms are mostly "brandlings", the little worms with yellow rings on. Are they useful, or not? They don't smell very nice!
User avatar
Janet K. Sullivan
KG Regular
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:55 am
Location: Bangladesh

Peat-free potting composts contain mixtures of organic materials – e.g. composted bark, coir (coconut fibre), woodfibre and green compost – mixed with inorganic materials such as grit, sharp sand, rock wool and perlite. A mix of coarse and fine particles is needed to create a balanced compost containing enough water and air, which are essential for root growth.
meghtitan
KG Regular
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:41 am

I have no clue on peat v's non peat & just order from the allotment shop so delivered to the plot; or spot an offer at the garden centre when mooching around & realise I am getting low. Confession time - I have never read the pack detail of what it is in them nutrition wise. Another thing comes to mind is the idea of what seeds need to germinate is in them so don't need extra nutrients for a bit, but seeds come in all sizes & shapes so they can't have standard requirements of one compost fits all. subway surfer mod jiofi.local.html
JohnB
KG Regular
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed May 26, 2021 7:18 pm
Location: Deepest, darkest, Lincolnshire

Sorry about the long post, although I rarely post on here yet love to read all your comments, this time I thought you might be interested in my experiment.

Last year I decided that during 2022 I would do some objective tests on coir versus peat. If I could get away from peat I'd do it. I bought some blocks of coir and some bags of a proprietary brand of Irish moss peat. The compost make-up was identical in other ways. 20% peat or coir mixed with garden soil, and horticultural grit to give good drainage. The results were astounding and upsetting. First of all, I grew three different crops which were cucurbits, (cucumber - Marketmore; squash - butternut; courgette - green bush): Chilli - Cayenne: Lettuce - Little Gem. I thought this would be a good all-round group of easy to more difficult crops to experiment with.

First of all I had real problems with germination of all three groups in coir. Little gem in peat were away rapidly, but the coir-sown seed were slow and very patchy. Cucurbits grew on well though. The coir Chilli's had to be resown and still with limited success.

Seedlings were pricked out into either coir or peat. Initially things looked fine and each plant was given carefully measured amounts of fertiliser; I used 2-part HydroSol at the manufacturers recommended rate. Gradually the leaves on the Chillis began to lack a little vigour, and became attacked by aphids. The leaves began to yellow, showing signs of lack of some nutrient, which is strange because HydroSol is a complete aquaponics fertiliser and contains a full range of micronutrients.

The coir-grown Little Gem died - end of lettuce, however the peat-grown plants are now being picked from the garden. The coir-grown cucurbits have all died, but rapidly sown replacements are coming along nicely, grown in peat!

The Chilli experiment is interesting because I decided to try to salvage what I could of the Cayenne variety along with some Hungarian Black (seeds from this magazine I believe, thank you KG). So I made up another batch of peat-based compost, same recipe as before. I removed the sad looking plants from their coir based compost and washed the roots and replanted in peat-based. Lo! and Behold! after two weeks they have improved, the leaves are greening up, the plants are stronger and coping with the aphids.

The sad part is I lost my squash plants (2 butternut) and the courgettes and the first lot of cucumbers. Another poster on another part of this forum mentioned that when buying in compost 'Caveat Emptor'. Thank you for the comment, I will take note, and continue to use peat.

Regards,
JB.
JohnB
KG Regular
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed May 26, 2021 7:18 pm
Location: Deepest, darkest, Lincolnshire

I would just like to add one small item to the above. People question the difference between peat and non-peat organic materials. There is a difference and that is the formation over many years of laying down organic material in an oxygen-free environment of two organic acids, fulvic and humic. These are lacking in the rapidly-made oxygen-rich modern alternatives.
User avatar
Primrose
KG Regular
Posts: 8054
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:50 pm
Location: Bucks.
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 281 times

JohnB
Thank you for this detailed report. It,s interesting to read but disappointing for you.
I think this rather sums up the dilemma as "save the planet or save your plants."

Growers, especially amateur ones, spend a lot of time and effort nurturing their seedlings to maturity and are unlikely to repeatedly bymaterials which don,t work for them, especially if they end up missing the timescale boat by having to re-sw. . Sadly many have to rely on whatever is available locally but having had some ooor results in the past with non peat based conditions post, for the relative small amouny I use, I,d prefer to stick with the peat based.
Colin2016
KG Regular
Posts: 944
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:33 pm
Location: North Norfolk Coast
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Very interesting post JohnB.

Have to say I have had mixed success/failures this year and thought it was due to compost so tried different type, but suspect it is more to do with weather/temps & my impatience to get them growing early.

The chilli growing guide I have suggest 50/50 coir/compost mix only used compost.
I have used coir pellets but find them an unnecessary expense.
Stephen
KG Regular
Posts: 1869
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:03 pm
Location: Butts Meadow, Berkhamsted
Been thanked: 2 times

Thanks JohnB but we have to find a replacement for peat if we are not to strip away the environments completely.
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
Post Reply Previous topicNext topic