I planted onion seed the first week in Jan in
heated propagator - absolutely nothing came
up. I re-sowed some on 23/1 and nothing from
them either.
The seed was bought fresh from the garden
centre this year but on reflection they did not
have much avail so it could have been old seed
but it is in date. Do you reackon it is just a duff
batch or am I being too anxious?
Westi
Duff Seed?
Moderators: KG Steve, Chantal, Tigger, peter
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jethrotattydrill
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There is still time for your second sowing to emerge but the non-appearance of your first batch is a concern.
If there is nothing from the second lot , I guess you have had a duff batch. Even if conditions were not perfect I would have expected something to pop through.
If there is nothing from the second lot , I guess you have had a duff batch. Even if conditions were not perfect I would have expected something to pop through.
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Geoff
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Try filling whatever you use with fresh compost, water with Cheshunt compound, allow to drain, put in propagator for a couple of days to warm through, press some seeds into the surface, lightly cover with fine vermiculite and return to the propagator. In parallel you can test the viability on damp kitchen roll in a plastic box in the airing cupboard. Quite a few onion seeds are sold treated, particularly Red Baron, which suggests a tendency to rot off. I don't think you can buy old fashioned seed dressing any more but hormone rooting powder containing Captan might help.
Hi Westi,
The questions I ask are; At what temperature are you trying to propagate? Have you over watered? Where is the propagator situated?
Onions do not need a lot of heat and certainly if the growing medium is too wet they will simply fail. I have found it best to water the tray/module prior to seeding from the bottom and allow to drain down for several hours prior to seeding. No more water is needed until the until the cotyledon straightens out (unfolds) and then very very sparingly.
If duff seed is suspected then a seed test between moist kitchen paper for no more than 4 days inspecting regularly should help. Certainly duff seed occurs if the place where you have purchased do not store properly.
JB.
The questions I ask are; At what temperature are you trying to propagate? Have you over watered? Where is the propagator situated?
Onions do not need a lot of heat and certainly if the growing medium is too wet they will simply fail. I have found it best to water the tray/module prior to seeding from the bottom and allow to drain down for several hours prior to seeding. No more water is needed until the until the cotyledon straightens out (unfolds) and then very very sparingly.
If duff seed is suspected then a seed test between moist kitchen paper for no more than 4 days inspecting regularly should help. Certainly duff seed occurs if the place where you have purchased do not store properly.
JB.
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Westi
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Thanks Everyone
I think the comparison test is the answer so will
try that but either way will get some more seed
as there is much more stock in now at the garden
centre so hopefully nice and fresh and they haven't
had a chance to abuse it in storage.
Westi
I think the comparison test is the answer so will
try that but either way will get some more seed
as there is much more stock in now at the garden
centre so hopefully nice and fresh and they haven't
had a chance to abuse it in storage.
Westi
Westi
You do not really need a heated propagator for any of the alliums. Too much heat will prevent germination. All my alliums, onions, shallots and leeks, germinated in just over a week at about 13 C, and some of the seed is at least three years old.
Hi Realfood,
I agree wholeheartedly with your comments. In fact there are very few vegetable seeds that actually require the use of a propagator.
Certainly things like Tomatoes, Peppers and Aubergines do require heat but just about everything else will germinate at quite low temperatures.
To my way of thinking there are those who want forever to force things that, quite frankly, resent being forced. To use a propagator now on things that will not be able to be planted out for at least two months means that you will ultimately plant out a weak plant.
The ideal plant is one that has no set-backs at all. Germinated, potted on
(if necessary) or planted out without any hold-ups. The entire brassica family are better sown slightly late rather than early. Everybody seems to want good top growth when in truth the basis of a good plant is in the root structure. Get a good root structure and when those plants are planted in their final position the will grow away like rockets!
JB.
I agree wholeheartedly with your comments. In fact there are very few vegetable seeds that actually require the use of a propagator.
Certainly things like Tomatoes, Peppers and Aubergines do require heat but just about everything else will germinate at quite low temperatures.
To my way of thinking there are those who want forever to force things that, quite frankly, resent being forced. To use a propagator now on things that will not be able to be planted out for at least two months means that you will ultimately plant out a weak plant.
The ideal plant is one that has no set-backs at all. Germinated, potted on
(if necessary) or planted out without any hold-ups. The entire brassica family are better sown slightly late rather than early. Everybody seems to want good top growth when in truth the basis of a good plant is in the root structure. Get a good root structure and when those plants are planted in their final position the will grow away like rockets!
JB.
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peter
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Squash definately need heat. 
Very very poor germination without, nearly 100% with and at £2 for six seeds....
Very very poor germination without, nearly 100% with and at £2 for six seeds....
Do not put off thanking people when they have helped you, as they may not be there to thank later.
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AnneThomas
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I have bought tomato and pepper seeds for the first time - not realising they need heat. Looks like I will have to be creative about that as I only have a plastic greenhouse.
Peter - not that I am any expert but I have always grown squash as I was told it was easy - and I have to say I haven't had any problems with germination without heat. Beginners luck
Peter - not that I am any expert but I have always grown squash as I was told it was easy - and I have to say I haven't had any problems with germination without heat. Beginners luck
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peter
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Anne, I had the same first year, then from two packets of Crown Prince (the absolute king of squash) I got one plant. 
I then dug out a one tray sized electric propagator from my mothers house had great success with this simple device, no heat control, just on or off. Seeds in Saturday, eight inch long seedlings out the next Saturday, best to use it in the light unlike me. Following batches I checked daily after third day and windowsilled the seedlings after they had broken the surface, much better and green rather than yellow.
Two years ago I dismantled my late fathers 8'x16' greenhouse and re-assembled an 8'x12' from it in my garden, used a cheapo growbag plastic greenhouse as an inner sanctum, with the propagator in that two shelves down, used a long extension cable, on an rcd, run down the garden path . This gave good results, with three temperature zones; warm in the propagtor, frostfree in the growbag cover and pot-luck in the greenhouse(unheated).
Last year was no good as the garden was inaccessible and full of builders and their stuff.
This year I now have a fully certified professionally installed electricity supply in the greenhouse , but have not used it as the weather is too cold yet, no point producing seedlings that can't go out or paying Mr Putin a fortune via British Gas. My allotment slopes north in a frost pocket, so I am usually a few weeks behind better local spots anyway.
Anyway, when I get going this year it will be:
Propagator.
Growbag house.
Greenhouse with a fan heater on frostfree setting.
Fingers crossed regarding leccie bill.
Remind me this summer and I'll let you know whether I managed it and how it went.
I then dug out a one tray sized electric propagator from my mothers house had great success with this simple device, no heat control, just on or off. Seeds in Saturday, eight inch long seedlings out the next Saturday, best to use it in the light unlike me. Following batches I checked daily after third day and windowsilled the seedlings after they had broken the surface, much better and green rather than yellow.
Two years ago I dismantled my late fathers 8'x16' greenhouse and re-assembled an 8'x12' from it in my garden, used a cheapo growbag plastic greenhouse as an inner sanctum, with the propagator in that two shelves down, used a long extension cable, on an rcd, run down the garden path
. This gave good results, with three temperature zones; warm in the propagtor, frostfree in the growbag cover and pot-luck in the greenhouse(unheated).Last year was no good as the garden was inaccessible and full of builders and their stuff.
This year I now have a fully certified professionally installed electricity supply in the greenhouse
, but have not used it as the weather is too cold yet, no point producing seedlings that can't go out or paying Mr Putin a fortune via British Gas. My allotment slopes north in a frost pocket, so I am usually a few weeks behind better local spots anyway.Anyway, when I get going this year it will be:
Propagator.
Growbag house.
Greenhouse with a fan heater on frostfree setting.
Fingers crossed regarding leccie bill.
Remind me this summer and I'll let you know whether I managed it and how it went.
Do not put off thanking people when they have helped you, as they may not be there to thank later.
I support http://www.hearingdogs.org.uk/
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AnneThomas
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Good luck with that Peter - and yes I will try and remember to check on how you got on.
Looks like a propagator will have to go on a 'wish' list somewhere.
Looks like a propagator will have to go on a 'wish' list somewhere.
Hi Peter,
I do use heat for all the squash family but I do not use a propagator.
I always nick the top of the seed (opposite the scar) to allow moisture to enter. I then use moistened kitchen paper folded into a home-made petri dish and either pop them onto the top of the solid fuel boiler, but to be more precise on a wire cooling tray on top of the boiler or into the airing cupboard. As soon as germination has taken place I then plant into 9cm pots and keep them at house temperature until them break the surface. Depending on the conditions I then put them down into one of the tunnels and simply insulate the bottoms and cover with fleece. All my seedlings are grown standing on sheets of 2" expanded polystyrene. The amount of cold that plants experience simple stood on a slatted staging is amazing. I also have expanded metal lath forming cages under the expanded polystyrene and over the top of everything.
With Squash seeds as soon as the seed shows the first sign of germinating (a slight show of the radical) it is then potted up.
I have no trouble in growing squash and generally get well over 90% success rate.
JB.
I do use heat for all the squash family but I do not use a propagator.
I always nick the top of the seed (opposite the scar) to allow moisture to enter. I then use moistened kitchen paper folded into a home-made petri dish and either pop them onto the top of the solid fuel boiler, but to be more precise on a wire cooling tray on top of the boiler or into the airing cupboard. As soon as germination has taken place I then plant into 9cm pots and keep them at house temperature until them break the surface. Depending on the conditions I then put them down into one of the tunnels and simply insulate the bottoms and cover with fleece. All my seedlings are grown standing on sheets of 2" expanded polystyrene. The amount of cold that plants experience simple stood on a slatted staging is amazing. I also have expanded metal lath forming cages under the expanded polystyrene and over the top of everything.
With Squash seeds as soon as the seed shows the first sign of germinating (a slight show of the radical) it is then potted up.
I have no trouble in growing squash and generally get well over 90% success rate.
JB.
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Westi
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Aye - it was duff! Seed in comparison just went
mouldy - grew some fuzz and rotted. I have no
evidence that I bought it from the Garden Centre
but I will mention it to them when I go down next.
In the meantime everything else is tickety boo so
will be pricking out when I get back from Lottie.
I have my sets in as a backup so still will have loads
of alliums but they don't get big enough to push the
old boys for a prize in Lottie show - just have to
enter another category. Lets see if I can beat the
kids with weird carrot or something!
Westi
mouldy - grew some fuzz and rotted. I have no
evidence that I bought it from the Garden Centre
but I will mention it to them when I go down next.
In the meantime everything else is tickety boo so
will be pricking out when I get back from Lottie.
I have my sets in as a backup so still will have loads
of alliums but they don't get big enough to push the
old boys for a prize in Lottie show - just have to
enter another category. Lets see if I can beat the
kids with weird carrot or something!
Westi
Westi
Westi wrote:I planted onion seed the first week in Jan in
heated propagator - absolutely nothing came
up. I re-sowed some on 23/1 and nothing from
them either.
The seed was bought fresh from the garden
centre this year but on reflection they did not
have much avail so it could have been old seed
but it is in date. Do you reackon it is just a duff
batch or am I being too anxious?
Westi
If you kept the seed packet, with the batch code, and dates i would send the pack to the supplier to get a replacement packet, that is if it is not a cheap imported pack than can be seen in some shops i have seen.
i have never grown onions from seed other than spring onions, but i have purchased a few packs this year to try.