Haggis
Sowing too early??
Moderators: KG Steve, Chantal, Tigger, peter
Over the last few years some of the produce from my plot has been really poor - small onions, low yields of potatoes etc. I have been adding manure/growing green manure etc in an attempt to improve the soil fertility but a chance remark I overheard has made me wonder if I have been planting too early. Would planting too early affect yield e.g. if the plants get a cold spell. I usually plant my spuds and onion sets around the first week of April (NE Scotland). What do you think?
Haggis
Haggis
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madasafish
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Having grown up in NE Scotland and moved to Staffordshire:
1. it's warmer here.
2. I never plant anything uncovered outside before end April.
So I agree: far too early...
1. it's warmer here.
2. I never plant anything uncovered outside before end April.
So I agree: far too early...
Hello Haggis
One thing you could try (maybe you already do it) is to start as much as possible off in pots and modules in a greehhouse or cold frame if you have one. This will give everything a flying start then carry on planting at your usual times. Your growing season is shorter so you need to make the most of it.
Have a word with other local gardeners. How do they manage in your area? Do you have a local agricultural college that might give you some advice about what grows best in your area.
John
One thing you could try (maybe you already do it) is to start as much as possible off in pots and modules in a greehhouse or cold frame if you have one. This will give everything a flying start then carry on planting at your usual times. Your growing season is shorter so you need to make the most of it.
Have a word with other local gardeners. How do they manage in your area? Do you have a local agricultural college that might give you some advice about what grows best in your area.
John
The Gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men’s lives, the hours spent fishing Assyrian tablet
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What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning Werner Heisenberg
I am a man and the world is my urinal
I know we are not nearly as far north but in the Pennines and very exposed and I have found that planting and sowing later really pays off. Plants don't like lingering in damp soil, buffeted by cold winds, and when planted later always get away to a better start and catch up.
just a thaught about the onions,why not try an over wintering variety? 
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bottomleypots
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Hi,
In North Yorkshire I rarely plant anything before the first swallows which arrive the same week every year(20th April week).
If its warm enough for them then its warm enough to plant!
I think we all have that urge to do something once thenights get lighter.
Remember the tortoise and the hare...........
In North Yorkshire I rarely plant anything before the first swallows which arrive the same week every year(20th April week).
If its warm enough for them then its warm enough to plant!
I think we all have that urge to do something once thenights get lighter.
Remember the tortoise and the hare...........
"An hour digging is better than two hours in the Gym"
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Geoff
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I was in a bit of a rush with my first reply so here is something a little more considered.
I don't think your symptons are to do with planting time but are more likely to be caused by a lack of fertility. You say it has got worse over a few years, did you take over a plot / garden or start one from scratch and it was better at first than it is now? This would be a sure sign that your regime is not maintaining the fertility. Another thing to look for is the performance of different crops, brassicas are hungry and will fail on poor soil whereas legumes are much more likely to succeed (with the proviso that peas are surprisingly hungry while they are establishing). If you want to be organic continue to use plenty of compost and manure but add some blood, fish and bone as a general fertiliser; if not use growmore at under half the price. See other thread discussing quantities.
I have never been a user of green manures so other people could probably advise you better. I can accept the idea that they prevent leaching and improve the texture but I would be worried about the nitrogen they tie up when they are dug in and start to rot.
On timing I am an early bird. I live at 600' East of Lancaster near the North Yorkshire border. I plant Rocket First Earlies the first week of March under a tunnel cloche in ground that is winter dug and sheeted over. I harvest them when Earlies are still over 50p per pound which means the first 6 roots of the 35 or so I plant pay for the entire crop. Many other things I put out with some protection as I try for continuous fresh vegetables rather than big yield gluts for freezing. I raise my onions from seed and a week ago I moved them from heated to cold greenhouse and will plant them out in early April.
I don't think your symptons are to do with planting time but are more likely to be caused by a lack of fertility. You say it has got worse over a few years, did you take over a plot / garden or start one from scratch and it was better at first than it is now? This would be a sure sign that your regime is not maintaining the fertility. Another thing to look for is the performance of different crops, brassicas are hungry and will fail on poor soil whereas legumes are much more likely to succeed (with the proviso that peas are surprisingly hungry while they are establishing). If you want to be organic continue to use plenty of compost and manure but add some blood, fish and bone as a general fertiliser; if not use growmore at under half the price. See other thread discussing quantities.
I have never been a user of green manures so other people could probably advise you better. I can accept the idea that they prevent leaching and improve the texture but I would be worried about the nitrogen they tie up when they are dug in and start to rot.
On timing I am an early bird. I live at 600' East of Lancaster near the North Yorkshire border. I plant Rocket First Earlies the first week of March under a tunnel cloche in ground that is winter dug and sheeted over. I harvest them when Earlies are still over 50p per pound which means the first 6 roots of the 35 or so I plant pay for the entire crop. Many other things I put out with some protection as I try for continuous fresh vegetables rather than big yield gluts for freezing. I raise my onions from seed and a week ago I moved them from heated to cold greenhouse and will plant them out in early April.
Tnak you all for your replies. I think maybe the decreasing crop yields is probably a combination of planting a bit early (I am always itching to get going) and perhaps a decrease in fertility. I am not strictly organic (just avoid using pesticides/herbicides if I can)so use a good sprinkling of Growmore on just about everything. The cow poo and green manures were partly to aid ferility and partly just to build up the beds.
I really must learn to be patient and hold off from sowing too early - I know I am too early with things sown indoors - they always go leggy and I usually have to re-sow them anyway. I just hadn't really thought about onions/tatties being sown too early. Difficult to ask anyone local because I haven't seen anyone at our plots in the last 16 months!
Another year - another chance to get it right. Reckon I may be on the right track by the time I retire!
Thanks again for all of your replies.
Haggis
I really must learn to be patient and hold off from sowing too early - I know I am too early with things sown indoors - they always go leggy and I usually have to re-sow them anyway. I just hadn't really thought about onions/tatties being sown too early. Difficult to ask anyone local because I haven't seen anyone at our plots in the last 16 months!
Another year - another chance to get it right. Reckon I may be on the right track by the time I retire!
Thanks again for all of your replies.
Haggis
As regards date of sowing either learn to use a soil thermometer, we can guide you to charts of soil temperature vs.germination times, or just wait for the appropriate weeds to show, they have been picking the best dates for centuries. Many crops will catch up and possibly overtake from a somewhat later sowing, it is rare to find anything that has a sowing window of less than a month, many salads can be spread over several months for successional cropping.
I like your pragmatic approach to fertilisers but I find that liquid feeds are very useful and there are formulations to suit the main crop types, they act very quickly and be put just where wanted so are economical whereas a general feed broadcast is mostly wasted.
Allan
I like your pragmatic approach to fertilisers but I find that liquid feeds are very useful and there are formulations to suit the main crop types, they act very quickly and be put just where wanted so are economical whereas a general feed broadcast is mostly wasted.
Allan
Hi Haggis you really must curb your enthusiasm to get going up here, even with global warming we are still a month behind the southern regions of the British empire. Even the southerners are regretting planting so early after the weather we have all been having the past week or so. I never put anything outside till the middle of April.Mind you I have the absolute luxury of a polly tunnel which provides me with enough work to keep my enthusiasm supplied till I can get outdoors.At the moment I am picking Asparagus inbetween sowing and pricking out all sorts of things. A bed of winter onions and Garlic is coming on nicely.(all in the tunnel)
I have just dug up within the last week the last of the Leeks,Parsnips and Neeps and am just waiting for the ground to dry up and warm for me to rotavate and get planting, hopefully just after Easter Don't forget we had a little bit of frost up here in June last year.
I live near Newdeer if that can give you an idea of the relative geography of us, Chris has the luxury of the Gulf stream effect where he lives and his area is always 4 degrees warmer than where I am, I know because I go to his neck of the woods a lot and I used to live there.
So hold your horses and try to plan things to plant out in April.
Cheers
Arthur e
I have just dug up within the last week the last of the Leeks,Parsnips and Neeps and am just waiting for the ground to dry up and warm for me to rotavate and get planting, hopefully just after Easter Don't forget we had a little bit of frost up here in June last year.
I live near Newdeer if that can give you an idea of the relative geography of us, Chris has the luxury of the Gulf stream effect where he lives and his area is always 4 degrees warmer than where I am, I know because I go to his neck of the woods a lot and I used to live there.
So hold your horses and try to plan things to plant out in April.
Cheers
Arthur e
It does sound like you are a bit early Haggis. As you use lots of manure/compost and growmore, I really can't agree that fertility would be a problem unless your soil's ph reading is extreme.
'Organic trap' indeed ...
Mole
'Organic trap' indeed ...
Mole