new kitchen garden member needs advice

[dave1309]

hi all I have just been given a kitchen garden for free all I need to do is share some of the produce with the owner in lieu of rent.the problem that I have is that approx 4" down is solid with clay I am planning to rotavate it as soon as I can to try and loosen it up as you can imagine the drainage over this wet summer was very poor . I am planning to dig some manure in and then put a top dressing on top to over winter it and let the worms do their job Is this the right approach
many thanks Dave

[vegpatchmum]

Can't offer any advice I'm afraid but I'm sure some more knowledgeable members will be along shortly. I did want to say welcome, good luck and have fun with your veg patch

VPM
x

[dave1309]

thanx vpm looking forward to usin this site as I love the mag
dave

[Kleftiwallah]

Ditch the rotavator, leave it in the shed. It will only stir up the top soil into a froth and produce a slick surface to the clay layer. The only thing to do is DOUBLE DIG. (google it)

Dig out a trench a spit deep and break up the clay incorporating manure as you go. dig the next trench and turn it over onto the clay/manure layer and just carry on.

It is unbelieveably hard work but it is the only way you are going to produce a good soil structure.

Cheers, Tony.

[Monika]

Welcome to the forum, Dave. I am sure you will find it very useful.

And on your query, I am with Tony - double dig, don't rotavate. It will also mean that you can dig and out and get rid off any perennial weeds you might find. Rotavating would just chop them up and spread them. If you can get it done before we get hard frosts, these will help breaking down your cloddy soil!

By the way, where are you?

[peter]

If you have couch grass, Bindweed, buttercup, marestail, or any other weed that can regenerate from tiny bits, then for your own sake don't rotovate, says the owner of a Merry Tiller and two Howard 350's.

[dave1309]

thanks all spade at the ready at least it will save me £60 on hiring a rotavator
dave

[Jude]

Hi Dave,
for what it's worth my advice is also too double dig, but beware, it's very hard work if done properly so don't try and do too much at once, you really will regret it no matter how young and fit you are. (How young and fit are you by the way?) (Joke, honestly!)

[Catherine]

I would also like to welcome you to the web site, I know you will get any amount of information you need. All you need to ask. I agree, whatever you do don't rotavate, double dig a bit at a time, otherwise you will sicken yourself and you won't finish it.

We cover our beds after weeding at the end of the season then at the beginning of spring we do use our rotavator on the beds, but never when there are weeds.

[dave1309]

jude I was 52 on thurs with a dodgy back so I wont be doing too much in one go slowly slowly catch the monkey as they say
dave

[Tigger]

Welcome to the forum Dave. I would suggest you only do a small patch at a time, getting plenty of composted stuff/manure/straw into the soil to open it up.

We don't dig, although we do occasionally rotovate. We use the deep bed method and just add compost and manure on our raised beds. We don't walk on them.

Clay soil will be good for cabbages, sprouts, broccoli, cauliflower, as they like to be firmly planted, so that should save you some back work on part of the plot.

There is a gardening story that planting potatoes is good for loosening up the soil, but really, it's just because you dig twice - once to plant and again to lift - which breaks up the ground, not the potatoes themselves.

[Nature's Babe]

Good luck with your new garden, rotovating can actually increase hardpan below the blades also it will break up weeds into more growth from each cut bit. An alternative is to dig out topsoil from the paths and add to the top of raised beds which will give you greater depth of workable soil. If weedy cover beds areas with cardboard / wet, leaving no gaps for weeds to grow through, then my suggestion is to dig topsoil from the paths to layer over cardboard add manure/ mushroom compost/ home grown compost, leafmould, any good humus forming extras you can obtain in layers on top. Finally sow with autumn broad beans to add nitrogen, or a good green manure to cover the soil and add more nutrients for your new crops when turned in spring. the worms will dig in all the goodies you applied on top and it will be more workable by spring - bare soil packs down into hardpan quicker than anything . I used this method on my very hard clay soil which had not been cultivated for twenty or more years and it worked a treat without any hard digging and it is now crumbly and fertile. If you already have a bad back this is an option worth considering. Raised beds can be made without wood sides if cost is a problem, sides are sloped gently then you can plant sides as well as the top. bark applied to paths helps underfoot drainage too. only make the beds as wide as you can reach easily to the middle from the paths if not walked on the soil will not compact down. Feed your soil and the soil will look after your plants. making your own compost now will give you rich nutrients to topdress with next autumn. Paths and beds can follow any attractive design shape you wish as long as you follow the basic principles and can reach to plant and weed without walking on the beds. Have added a link showing method for raised beds without wooden sides
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy_x5rXq19g

[Johnboy]

Not knowing where Dave hails from it is rather difficult to know what sort of clay he is going to have to deal with.
Having lived for a considerable time in Hertfordshire which has very heavy clay in parts I was faced with almost the same situation as Dave of very little topsoil and then solid clay for as far down as you care to dig.
I managed, through double digging with the incorporation of FYM and masses of sharp-sand converted to 1.5 spits of topsoil which would grow simply anything you care to grow vegetable-wise.
I also had Marestail and Buttercups so thick that it needed a mattock to get to the sparse soil underneath and Ground Elder in very large patches in places. It took more than five years because I only had occasional weekends to actually work and then only part of my airforce leave to work.
I did use a chemical means to combat the Ground Elder and the Marestail
but the Buttercups were dug out and composted as was the Ground Elder but the Marestail was always burnt.
I think that Jude's warning is one that everybody should heed because however young you may consider yourself digging clay is very hard work for very little return initially but is really well worth it in the long run.
I do not think that the no dig system will work to get the very best out of clay soil which is exceedingly fertile or certainly not from the very off.
JB.

[hamsterhead]

This is a brilliant topic. Being a newcomer to allotmenteering and for a variety of reasons as can be seen in my diary, I almost took the route of hiring a rotovater but now having read this I shall get out the spade and get to work. A coffee break, every two row, sounds a good plan I think.

[Colin Miles]

Just to add to the comments on double-digging. If you haven't done any digging recently then take great care - do 20 mins max to start with. When I took over an allotment in the 90's and despite being fit and taking care not to do too much to start with, I still managed to pull my back out.