What to leave out?

[KG Steve]

Hi Guys

In the January issue of the mag we'll be discussing what to leave out when space is tight.

This came from some discussions we've had with beginner gardeners who are always keen to try anything and everything and often cram their plots with crops that perhaps don't realy suit the conditions, are difficult or don't always give value in return for the space they take up. Sometimes they grow so much that nothing is able to thrive due to the competition for light and water.

Many of you will have large plots or gardens, but if you were recommending veg to a first timer with limited room, what would you suggest they leave out? Or perhaps you feel that anything is worth a try?

Post your thoughts and we'll use as many as we can on the pages in the issue.

Happy plotting,

CC

[peter]

Discard erything novel, that you've never eaten, or which is trendy/new introduction/not a normal UK crop.

Do the old standards and evolve each year after by discarding what you don't like and replacing it with something else. e.g. replace Runner with French beans.

BUT contrary to my initial advice, if space allows try one novel thing a year, the issue comes when you like everything you have room for.

[Nature's Babe]

Use what space you have imaginatively, think vertical as well as horizontal, eg last year my squash grew up and trailed between the wooden strutts of our decking / balcony area, loganberries and blackberries grew up against thr fence If space is limited then i choose to grow things we like that are expensive to buy, peas, beans, strawberries, raspberries asparagus, rather than things like spuds and carrots which are cheap to purchase. Interplanting and catch cropping helps make the most of space too, eg parsley grows well between the rows of asparagus, garlic pops up between the strawberries, radish will crop between slower growing vegetables

[Johnboy]

My advice to a person new to growing with a limited space available is to forget growing Potatoes because there are so many things that you can grow which you will enjoy and Potatoes take up too much room in a limited space. Concentrate on Beans, either dwarf or runner, and salad stuffs, Beetroot, Lettuce, Salad Onions and Radishes. Nothing fancy just get used to growing the easier things and maybe do this for a couple of seasons until you begin to find your gardening legs so to speak then branch out.
It is better to stroll into gardening rather than rush because this way your capabilities grow with your expanding knowledge.
JB.

[glallotments]

If space is limited I'd restrict potatoes to just a few grown in a tub or a couple of potato bags. This way you can experience the taste of new potatoes without taking up too much space.

I wouldn't plant onions either as these are cheap to buy. I know carrots take a lot of space but really you can't beat home grown carrots for flavour and again you can plant in containers.

Leeks and parsnips also need a long growing season so use the space for a long time.

Runner beans are great as they don't take much ground space for the crop they produce whereas French beans take more space unless you plant climbing French beans

I think the real answer is to grow what you really like and what isn't as easily available or expensive to buy.

[Johnboy]

Hi Sue,
I had forgotten Carrots of course they are a must especially where children are concerned.
I omitted the Cabbage family because they too have a relatively long growing season. A line of Leeks is always welcome and they are relatively free from most pests. However Pheasants have had a good go at mine this year but I think Pheasants are unlikely in the modern urban garden.
Those new to gardening will not know how to extend their seasons and this they will realise the more they get into gardening. This is why I suggest they stroll into gardening and no mad panic to get everything in at once which is the great mistake most of us fell into when we started.
I have absolutely no faith in what I have just said because I, and just about every other gardener, have been guilty of it in the past. But I suppose the more it is repeated the more it might sink in!
All I can say is that growing vegetables has been the most wonderful experience of which I shall never tire.
JB.

[PLUMPUDDING]

My sister in law has grown veg for the first time ever this year in four smallish raised beds plus a row of climbing French beans against the garage and a row of Kelvedon Wonder peas in front of them. She has had enough beans from five plants to use fresh, give away, and store in the freezer. She always said she hated garden peas but loves the ones straight from her garden.

She is thrilled to bits with the beetroot and carrots. Mixed salad leaves and rocket, shallots, leeks and garlic also did well. The dwarf French beans tended to sprawl a bit too much but could have been tied up to small canes, and she says she won't bother with brassicas again as they take too much space up for too long before you can use them (and I don't think she particularly likes cabbage and kale anyway).

She also grew a few potatoes in potato sacks, but wasn't impressed with the size of the crop, so may not bother again.

So I think the advice would be to grow plants that don't take up too much space. Don't grow too many of any one thing. Grow plants you like to eat and grow a selection of salad plants that grow quickly. Then when you've a bit more confidence and see what does well, try a few new veg and see how they do and if you like them.

I also forgot that she put a couple of raspberry canes in a corner that wasn't being used and some strawberry plants in a tub.

[Parsons Jack]

If space is limited, I would leave out brassicas as they take up so much room and it's a constant battle against just about every pest known to man .
I would grow potatoes ( perhaps just earlies ) in bags, keeping them well fed and watered.

[oldherbaceous]

If space was limited, i wouldn't grow Maincrop potatoes or record breaking pumpkins.

[Geoff]

The main thing to leave out is lots of twee raised beds and paths - short of space, use it all! Only spend your cash on things that will give you a good return like quality tools, rootrainers/modules, cloches and insect netting.

[Tony Hague]

Too right Geoff. I watch with amusement as new plot holders (on already small, subdivided plots) build a shed, two or three compost bins and a raised bed, then find they have almost no growing space left ! Often it looks like gardening for frustrated civil engineers.

[Johnboy]

Hi Geoff,
I wholeheartedly agree with your comments about raised beds and even designated beds in a garden growing area or a small plot allotment that is short of space. They are simply expensive and totally unnecessary.
Another thing that occurs to me is if they are going to grow climbing beans they they must grown in an area where they will not deprive everything else of good direct daylight. Having found this area it should be made a permanent bed/area. Beans do not seem to be bothered by pests and diseases that are associated with many other vegetables.
My main bean bed has been permanently for more than fifteen years now without any problems.
JB.

[Marigold]

Johnboy; I do enjoy your posts as we think alike on so many things.

Smiling as the fact of suddenly having over 1/4 acre of garden went to my head this year..Like many, I tend to grow only early potatoes as they are very cheap now. They were beautiful.. I planned badly; there are two parts of the garden and I need the top part for cut flowers etc so am waiting for the kale to be used.

Just could not believe how things grow here; but with the move etc was too short of cash and some of the seed I was given was no good. But the NZ and other stuff! And I bought some elderly and wizened cabbage seedlings from an old man at the market which are hearting into giants as tall as my thigh.

The broad beans were ! took me a whole day to pod them and I have a lot in the freezer..

Carrots failed; I think it was the seed. and onions did nto do well. The Will try pumpkins next year and if i can get some fodder maize seeds...

But yes; grow what you really enjoy. Next year here I will do better..

[PLUMPUDDING]

Just a point about the raised beds you don't like.

They are ideal for people who have trouble bending, they are easy to reach from all sides, they are easy to cover with cloches, fleece or mesh to keep out carrot fly etc, and they provide a good depth of soil or light compost where the garden is solid clay or on builders rubble. They also give good drainage on otherwise waterlogged land. If you have four, even if they are small you can have a basic crop rotation or group similar crops in each.
They can be quite reasonably priced, maintenance free and last for years.

If you don't have much space a raised bed with good quality compost can produce a much better crop than trying to cram lots of things into a small area of poor quality soil. Slugs are much less of a problem too.

So for some people they are a quick way of converting a moth-eaten lawn into a productive attractive bit of veg garden using bark chippings around and between them for clean weed free paths.

[Monika]

My goodness, I seem to agree with most of the replies so far, particularly about the raised beds (unless, like Plumpudding explains, it's a physical necessity).

My main criteria would be: what would you/your family like to eat most of all and then concentrate on those. If it's possible to grow upwards, what about runner beans, mangetout peas or a tall pea like 'Alderman' which will provide a lot of vegetables from a small patch of ground. Obviously, salad things (cut and come again will last all summer!), including beetroot and radish and annual herbs. Perhaps set aside a small part for perennial herbs?

As has been suggested already, early potatoes in bags which can also be moved about, as required.

I would certainly leave out brassicas because of the long time in the ground, possibly excepting kohlrabi which doesn't take up much room and doesn't stay in the ground for long.
Marrows and courgettes, too, seem to sprawl all over the place, but one plant of courgettes in a bag?