Cultivators and deturfing machines

[haggis]

I hae just given up the lease on my old plot (due to vandalism) and have been lucky to get a new plot in a very secure area. Downside is that it is overgrown. I have strimmed it right back and tried digging a bit by hand. At the rate I dig it will be a decade before I clear it all.
Short of getting 20 able bodied men (or ladies!) to help me out I think I may have to resort to either weedkiller or mechanical tools to get it under control. Chemicals are an absolute last resort so I was wondering about hiring a turf stripper and a power driven rotovator. Once the turf/weeds have been lifted off the surface the ground isn't too hard to fork over. I would still have to fork it again to remove roots of perernnials but it may be a bit easier if already broken up. The ground is reasonably even. Anyone have any experience of this/bits of advice?

[peter]

A rotovator works best on roughly broken (spade sized lumps) or previously cultivated soil. On hard & weed matter ground it will bounce and skip if a wheelless type, or, if driven by wheels will try to rotor-assisted horizon-launch.
Persistence and many passes will eventually work, better is if you can get hold of a really big and heavy one like a Howard GEM, which is too heavy for the rotors to overdrive and it can cut in.
Even worse though is if it all works the weed roots will be chopped into little bits and thoroughly mixed in.
It is too late in the season for weedkiller anyway, as weeds need to be actively growing for it to kill them.

Stick to manual digging over the winter, at the same time try to locate a heavyweight rotovator and review your progress & options in the spring.

[Nature's Babe]

As you say chemicals are an absolute last resort, I suggest mow or hack the top layer down, then cover / overlap with thick newspaper/ cardboard to exclude light overwinter and make a lasagne of stuff on top, leaves, compost, manure, grass clippings, whatever you can get your hands on, top with soil conditioner and let the worms do their stuff overwinter, by spring it should be more workable and most of the stuff will have died off, if anything perrennial does persist you will be able to see and dig it out quite easily, and you will have added nutrients to the top layer ready for planting. If you dig and leave bare soil rain will leach nutrients.

http://www.howdini.com/howdini-video-7561504.html

[Elaine]

Hi Haggis. I agree with Peter, regarding rotovators chopping up weeds and making them multiply.All those chopped up bits of plant readily turn into another weed....if there is bindweed on there, you will have major problems. On our allotment site, you can tell the plots which are rotovated by the amount of perennial weeds it holds.

Last year, new folks took the over grown plot opposite ours and asked for advice regarding rotovating as opposed to digging. We recommended digging and explained about the chopped weeds generating new ones but they decided to rotovate because it was quicker and they were naturally, keen to get on with planting and growing. Boy are they regretting it this year! They are really dismayed by the infestation of thistle, creeping buttercup and bindweed and are wishing they hadn't been so hasty.They are now digging with a vengeance.

Our plot hadn't been cultivated for 4 years when we took it on 6 years ago and it was head high in weeds. Docks like trees, that we had to saw down, nettles, thistles in abundance, and all the usual persistent ones. We strimmed it down to ground level and started digging. Each bit we cleared, we prepared and planted, rather than trying to clear the entire plot...we reckoned that would be the equivalent of painting the Humber Bridge..by the time you finish it's time to start again!

The hard work paid off though! We do have the odd perennial weed, apart from the couch grass..but it's mainly annual stuff and we're really pleased that we didn't use our pals machine.

I hope this helps you a little bit. Good luck with your new plot.
Cheers.

[Tony Hague]

Whilst I like NB's notion of covering with cardboard and a mulch, a lot of perenial weeds will not be greatly deterred by this - they certainly won't die overwinter, many die back in winter anyway so will not much miss the light until spring, by which time the cardboard will have degraded enough that they will happily punch through it and grow away, enjoying the manure and compost mulch you have given them.

I'd dig what I can, if possible and use that for now. Cover some more with something durable like black polythene. It will take a year or more without light to kill many weeds.

I did a few beds by digging in year one, and covered space for a couple more with black polythene. Each year the polythene could be moved down the plot and a another couple of beds brought into use. I did use the cardboard and woodchip mulch for paths, applied in spring when the light deprivation is more effective.

Good luck !

[Geoff]

I notice nobody has answered the "deturfer" question, probably because like me they have never tried it. It sounds sensible to me to strim it flat, deturf it, stack the turf and strimmings as a probably two year compost heap, sheet over with heavy black polythene rolling back and double digging as time allows. As everybody has said, should end up a lot cleaner than rotovating.

[richard p]

turfing machines usually only take off the top inch or so... which would leave all the perrniel roots in place.. ready for the rotovater id go the strim and black plastic route...still have to dig out the deep roots but it will make the digging a lot easier.

[haggis]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. I think that a rotovator is definitely out but not sure about the deturfer. I may give it a go - will still have to dig out roots but it is lifting the hard matted stuff that is really back breaking. I think in the end it will all be down to digging and cleaning by hand. I am just a bit daunted when I see 30m x 10 m of overgrown field. Good point about the bare soil leaching nutrients Nature's Babe - I think I may cover any cleaned areas with seaweed. Not much free these days but that is and after the gale we are having tonight there will be loads washed up - may even blow the 2 miles up to my plot

[peter]

Haggis, there is another way to destroy the "thatch".

A roofers long handled propane torch.

The burner is about the size of a baked bean tin, Toolmart do them I think and I've seen a twin burner gardening version. You use a 15kg red tank, bung it in a barrow when using for safety, easy to move away from flames.

[Nature's Babe]

Good idea Haggis, seaweed adds about 72 different minerals to the soil, in Jersey they used to collect seaweed from the high spring tides, stack it first to rid some of the salt/ sand I think then spreasd it on the land in November. It added humus which helped stop erosion on the sloping fields and gave the Jersey Royal spuds a great flavour.

[John]

Hello Haggis
Lots of good replies here and plenty for you to think about.
It is often said that rotovating neglected soil simply chops the weeds and and multiplies them. Any cultivation with spade or fork or a machine will do this - it's not just a rotovator thing. If you run the rotovator on its SLOWEST possible setting (tortoise on my MT) there will be not much more damage than you'd get with manual cultivation. It takes much longer but it's well worth the extra time. The machine will just turn over and gently break up the soil. The problems are caused when these machine are run quickly and pulverise the soil then mince the weeds.
You will need to loosen the soil roughly before starting as others have said. This will enable the tines to dig into the soil.

John

[richard p]

there is another way of using a rotovater... rotovate to chop all the weeds... soon as they start growing rotovate again, etc, eventually the bits of root will exhaust themselves... especially if theres hot dry weather to dry the bits out aswell... but you are looking at repeated rotovation over several months... probably means loosing a growing season, perhaps worth a try on the second half of the plot.

[Nature's Babe]

Worth considering you will probably lose all your friends the worms along with the weeds if you rotovate fast and frequently ! Also I have heard that fast rotovating can hard pan the soil just under rotovator depth. Both these considerations have implications for long term drainage.

[Geoff]

Thinking about it again. I guess you are considering hiring the turf cutter so see what you can find out about it. If, as Richard says, the most it can take off is an inch I wouldn't bother. On the other hand, if it can be adjusted to two to three inches I'd go for it. You may have the answer to a question a lot of people taking over allotments ask.

[PLUMPUDDING]

Do you know anybody with a couple of pigs? They get the roots and everything out.