ORGANIC OR NOT

[Chez]

Sorry Compo, after all that I should at least give you my view on the topic itself. Not that I am interested, you understand We're more pragmatic than organic, or non. We try to keep chemicals off and mostly succeed, but will spray weeds, some crops for caterpillars (if other controls fail) and use slug pellets too. No use of fertilisers other than manure and chicken pellets. We don't seek out organic seed either. However, each to their own, I say.

[Tigger]

For goodness sake, what is with the new censorship team? So because you may have read this topic when it was previously covered, it shouldn't be covered again in your time on the forum - bit precious don't you think? You don't know how many new members have joined since earlier posts and these new members may wish to discuss this very topic. There is no need for them to make do with earlier threads by established 'regulars'. As new members continue to join the site, topics previously covered may well have quite different outcomes with fresh input from newer members.

If you don't want to participate in the discussion, why not move on instead of sabotaging the thread for those who are interested? I am not one of them, but think new input (on old topics or not) is what stops forums becoming stale, insular and non-progressive.

That just about sums it up for me too. Let everyone have their say, politely, without aggression, without being personal and without shouting please.

[David]

Quite right that topics should be refreshed and new ideas and opinions aired but that wasnt how Compo started out. If the thread starts from scratch it wont be long until one of the entrenched positions is forwarded which will then drag in the other side and we get a re-run of the old arguments - pointless.

Compo we welcome you and your opinions especially if you have read and understood the earlier positions and have something to add that will enlighten or amuse the rest of us.

I for one want to know if a seed is still organic if it hasn't been planted by a vegetarian.............

Smiling David

[Compo]

Thanks everyone maybe I was a bit oversensitive to the earlier perspectives, but Tigger and Chez have summed up my point adequately.

At last someone got the point, these sites can get a bit precious about what is acceptable and what is not, as a Nation we promote freedom of speech, you don't buy a paper if you dont like it's rethoric and you don't atand listening to a speaker in Hyde Park Corner if you don't like the cut of his or her Gibb. I agree with Chez there are many new ones amongst the forum that want to have the debate that we missed, reading the archive is not a live experience. Vive le difference I say.

PS as well as horsebran, common or garden sharp sand is also an excellent slug and snail guard, this year I am going to use both.

[David]

Is this in the same way you wont read a book because you werent there when the author wrote it?

[pigletwillie]

Wow Chez, Knockout.

I think that the forum threads are like tv programs. If you dont like it, change thread. There is no point watching (reading) it and complaining that you didnt like it afterwards.

To be honest re-hashing old threads is bound to bring up something new as new members have new ideas, and in reality is no more naughty than swinging a thread wildly off course, like we sometimes do.

I am like Chez, try to be organic but am pragmatic and have a finger on the nuclear option if required.

[Allan]

I'm rather enjoying sitting on the sidelines watching this one roll. I'll let you into a new idea. If you watch or listen to the latest pundits, organic is dropping out of use as the buzz-word. They thought about renewable which didn't catch on, THE buzzword now is 'local' which is just as fallible. Hereford is renowned for potatoes, apples hops, even beetroot, sprouts are fine but they just cannot grow carrots commercially round here, the soil is the wrong type so no local carrots, nor for that matter is there local watercress except mine.There is nothing wrong in using Cornish cauliflowers in season, rhubarb from Yorkshire, you won't find cheddar cheese at Cheddar. I don't know about Brussels sprouts, I think that must be all the new regulations they keep on imposing.
Back to my coffe and Swiss roll!
Enjoy the topic.
Allan

[Cider Boys]

Allan

Try the Cheddar Gorge Cheese Company, they do make Cheddar in Cheddar.

Regards

Barney

[p.r.]

[img][img]http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/rogerspaul/stellatta0016.jpg[/img]
Are you organic?
[/img]
No were just local.

[Compo]

just got on again after an evening out thank god there are enough open minded enlightened individuals that like a good debate without getting precious if one opinion goes against theirs; Alan is right about organic being out of favour, apparently organic commercial farmers are producing tasteless wan food because the soil is thin and washed out and there is no nutrients left because of intensive growing, and a lack of cheap bulk organic matter being available. So the concept of local is interesting, I guess local is good for emissions because things don't have to travel, I only leave a thin trail of rubber and mud on the road from lotment to kitchen (400yards by pushbike) but if I buy Spanish Strawberries in the carbon emission is high, so there is a lot of sense in local. What I would be interested to know is if anyone allows lots of veg to bolt and harvest seeds that way, maybe we could twist the path of this thread towards seed collectin and it's options (praying there is nothing in the archive that will cause disdain and much frowning). So what about home made seed then. what can we do and what can't we do?? Does anyone get away with never buying seed?

[Allan]

Wouldn't it be more sense to have a seperate thread on seed buying and saving.By the time you have chewed over the subject of whether organic seed is special there won't be much else left on this one.Jeremy Cherfas who was once prominent in the Organic heirachy said that concept lacked credibility yet the commitment to use such seeds wherever available has got into the current rules(for commercials)
What did I mean by a buzzword. People get hold with what seems a good idea and apply it unthinkingly to situations where it isn't valid. Take Organic into the Supermarket and apply cosmetic perfection, uniformity and all-year availability and the result is obvious.
Harold Wilson brought publicity to the word Pragmatism and by and large I think most KG forum members would agree with that being the right approach.
Allan

[Allan]

I apologise for giving a fales statement. I should really have said that when I went to Cheddar Gorge the Cheddar was not being made locally any more, that was quite a long time ago. Good luck to CGCCo for restarting production.
Strictly speaking we live in England but grow Welsh vegetables, whether the 17 mile journey across the frontier invalidates the Local Produce label may be arguable.

[P.R.]

Well Compo, seed saving is another one thats been done here, but then why not do it again? I cant think of any gardening publication that doesnt repeat topics, its the name of the game and with new converts joining all the time even very basic info gets repeated again and again.
I have grown Vegetables to show standard for a long time now, (another can of worms, with all the comments like "yeh but you cant eat them can you.")
supporting local shows and e few national ones. A major part of success is maintaning (saving) your own strains of vegetables, be it seed or clones. so it can be done at a backyard level and to a high standard. it isnt always easy but it is very rewarding and another extension of this gardening hobby.I am also the first in line for anything new that looks exciting so hats of to the plant breeders too.best wishes...paul

[vivie veg]

Anybody who wants a "certificate" but can't afford the Soil Association route could try the attached link.

http://www.wholesomefood.org.uk

They also encourage local purchases and sales...which as Allan pointed out is becoming more fashionable!

I used to take an organic veg box at £8.50 per week, but found this very poor value and very tasteless. Each week contained 1kg potatoes (but these would not boil without falling to pieces) 2x500g other veg (generally carrots and onions) 3 pieces of salad, ie a tomato, 1/4 cucumber and a lettuce and 3 pieces of fruit. Generally the fruit was going off on the day of delivery! Alternatively you could order from a list, which I did do, but would generally spend about £15 just on enough veg to feed myself! (no fruit or potatoes). I did stop the veg box when my partner moved in and I lost my job...it would be cheaper to live on takeaways! so then I started growing in my back garden and now I have my field with lots of freinds saying they'll buy from me

I try to be Organic....but would fail the Soil Assoiciation test because my ducks are not feed organic fed (twice as expensive as the GM free layers pellets I buy and produced locally) and any manure needs to be from a Soil Association certified establishment and as the field is in very poor condition artifical fertilisers will be used until enough 'Organic fertility' can be built up.

[David]

Allan, I'm curious about your comment that you grow Welsh vegetables - do you say that because they speak Welsh or their fathers were Welsh?

Please enlighten us...........

David