ORGANIC OR NOT

[Anonymous]

In the colour supplement to today's Sunday Express, it reviews a cookbook "The Biodynamic Food & Cookbook". Apparently Wendy E Cook (the first wife of Peter Cook) "lifts the lid on this mystical agricultural movement". Anybody any ideas what the hell this is all about?

Hoping not to have opened too big a can of worms, but before I spend £18.99 on the said book, I should be grateful for any comments.

Is biodynamic as bad a swear word as organic?

valmarg

[p.r.]

as far as i remember,secret recipes for compost activators, different composts for different crops planting by the moon and more i cant remember with out looking it up. very old movement pre dates the soil association...rgds..paul.

[p.r.]

theyre on the web www.biodynamics.com cosmic life-force vibrations and medicine for a sick earth and all that...bst rgds ..paul.

[richard p]

there are biodynamic preparations ie herbal mixtures , one is a compost activator added to the compost, heap another is mixed with water and sprayed as a fertiliser etc. there are some quite detailed (wierd?) rituals/routines involved in the preparation and use of these treatments. one mixture is prepared and then buried in a hollow cowhorn over winter before it is deemed to be ready for use. the water based products are stirred in alternating directions for half an hour before use to "energise" them. its something to do with connecting to the earth subtle energy fields. as a practise its been arround for some time and in some countries has a higher profile than it does here. there is quite a lot of info on the web if you do a google search.

[Guest]

Compo, no one said it was a dead end string just that you should respect the previous efforts and know what has been said rather than forcing everyone to replay previous work just because you weren't hear the first time.

I havnt noticed you adding anything to the debate of any great value - yet.

Also refering to other members as 'thought police' is not the way to go.

[p.r.]

Richard, it makes you wonder whats in the cookbook that Valmarg saw advertised? How to make a fruit cake maybe? Also planting by the moon is only half of it, its a whole planetary thing, also Its a bit of a worry because according to the planetary calender on their website the moon "occults" uranus 10 times this year. A bit of a record apparently....paul. (occulting? ask me an easy one)

[Compo]

Just replying to the 'guest' who did not identify himself, I am a bit fed up with the poo that has been flung at me since I started the thread in the first place, I am not obliged to add to the debate but have followed it with interest and added items when I have been asked what my view actually is, to repeat that view repetitively is boring. But there are not too many strings going into four pages at the moment, which speaks volumes.

Finally I referred to the thought police, because there have been several critics like you Mr or Mrs Guest who do not appear to be able to tolerate newbies placing new (but ingorant to us 'repeat')threads, I may be a little slow but I cannot even find my way in to the archive. I am pleased you have replied and even more pleased that thanks to this great country I still have the right to reply.

I have decided to let this one fizzle out without any further help.

[vivie veg]

If it helps compo, the archive can be accessed via the 'search' button, on the line just above the select a forum window.

However, just to test it I put in 'Organic' and came up with some 78 (or so) threads. So you would need to be a bit more specific.

I feel so sad that so many replies have missed your original purpose, which I assume, was to get people to contribute their tips on growing organically. But has ended up with people being very negative, just because the word ORGANIC appears. After all there must be LOADS of threads mentioning broadbeans and tomates, but nobody jumps on their hobbyhorse and tells them to look in the archive.

SO PLEASE EVERYBODY, LETS BE GENEROUS AND SHARE OUR TIPS ON ORGANIC GROWING, AND DISCUSS THE MERITS OF ADVICE OR OLD WIVES TELLS WITHOUT GETTING PERSONAL.

My tips would be

a) A chunk of Rhubarb planted with your Brassica will stop Clubroot......I've never tried this, but have been told by two different people and I think it was in KG last year.

b) Let lettuce rot in water and spray the resulting liquid on your Brassica to stop caterpiller attacks. Again I have not tried this yet, but how often do you see your lettuces attacked by caterpillars?

[Diva]

My attitude to Organic growing??

If you've tried everything else to no avail....

Zap it with the bug gun!

By the way Compo, I'm sorry you've had such a hard time on the Forum. It's funny how some people can be so aggressive, sarcastic and downright rude when they're hiding behind a keyboard and yet in a face to face conversation they wouldn't. I call it...... Forum rage! But I didn't expect it in THIS forum! Guy's, I thought we were mild mannered Gardeners here?!! Let's be a little more civil to eachother.

Back on topic:

I try to be as organic as I can (companion planting, homemade remedies etc ) but frankly, when you've reached the end of your patience, time to use the 'heavy mob'. Flea beatles destroyed my entire crop of Chinese leaves (Red Mustard, two types of Pak Choi, Mizuna and Chinese Cabbage) last year. Finger on the trigger as we speak!

[Allan]

This debate goes round and round but some things are becoming clear.First there has been nobody who declares themself totally Organic i.e. to Soil Association (commercial) standards. Likewise there has been nobody who advocates not using whatever recycled organic material as much as they can get hold of,who does not pragmatically do what they consider to be the right thing, such as been practised ages before all this Organic hype was started. Nobody drenches their crops with sprays, approved or not, purely on a routine basis.
So where is it getting us?
In my opinion forget about it all, Big O is not some kind of holy grail by which all others should be judged.Just get on with gardening, do your own thing in the way you decide is most appropriate, get results and enjoy it.
Allan

[pigletwillie]

I think that this forum should be open to members only to submit posts and for guests to view.

I have had a couple of run ins with guests who I am sure were members really but chose to be anonymous to post a nasty thread, just as in your case compo.

Compo, carry on as normal otherwise the anonymous weasels win. You have got to also accept that peoples opinions may well be opposite to yours and that they have the right to post it, wether you like it or not. Calling people "thought police" for having different opinions to you is perhaps not the way to go. I try (mostly) to be polite answering threads unless aimed at "guests" who have been nasty, they tend to get both barrels.

Keep your chin up and get posting. The forum thrives on diversity and it needs yours Compo, just as much as anybody elses. Go for it, nobody can tell you to stop posting certain subjects, nor should they.

[p.r.]

some people are just determined not to address the questions, but take great delight in telling others how to behave and what to do...paul.

[Chez]

What on earth is this need to control everybody? Nobody is forced to reply to a posting. Just as nobody should be forced out of starting a thread on any given topic. Or saying it should stop. Nobody is forced to do anything on a forum, apart from abide by its rules. And that bit is the job of the mods. Thank goodness. Threads have a life of their own and that is just how it should be.

If you are in a room of people and overhear another group having a conversation on organics, do you march over to them, interrupt the conversation and tell them they shouldn't be discussing it because you've been party to this discussion before? Do you tell them if they wish to discuss it they should go and visit A, B and C on the other side of the room because they've had that debate previously and can relay how it went? You must be joking.

When we had an allotment, the old boys down there were regularly asked the same questions from newcomers and willingly gave of their expertise on the same topics, over and over again. I never once heard any of them say 'I've already given this information once, so go and see X and we will give you the info I have him/her'. You know why? Because they were passionate about growing their own vegetables and were keen to be as encouraging as possible to anyone who had even a vague interest.

Further, there are threads on this forum that I look at and think 'what a load of drivel' and have no interest in whatsoever. I don't contribute to them. But I would never dream of interfering with anyone else's right to do so. And if people are unable to conduct their debates in a mature manner, that is their responsibility, not that of the topic. If it gets out of hand, then the mods step in. That is their job.

So Compo, whether you 'let' this thread 'frazzle out' or not, I am afraid is ultimately down to those contributing to it.

And not-so-anonymous 'Guest' - for someone who is so keen to shut this thread down, you are doing a wonderful job of keeping it uppermost on the thread list.

And organics? The best thing we did last year (for the first time) was grow French marigolds around our broadbeans and tomatoes. Out of around 50 broadbean plants, only one had blackfly. Nearly 50 tomato plants that had an aphid presence were clean very soon after the marigolds went in. So remarkable was the result, we are doing the same again. Going to try them near the carrots and see if they help with carrot fly. Perhaps too hopeful on this one?

[Guest]

The object of using the guest access was to point out that its easy to hide just as compo's happy little Avatar hides a completly different persona.

To on the one hand start a thread then claim that you are 'not obliged to add to it' is odd and to claim rights of free speech for youself then seek to deny us that right when we take you to task is very poor.

To state that to 'repeat your view repetitively is very boring' is exactly the point of asking you to look in the archive. And now after 4 pages you claim this is because you cant find your way into the archive is not really believable.

I trust that you have learned that its better to take well meant advice than to take the attitude that you are going to do what you like and if we dont like it we can look away.

I'm sure everyone knows who this is, my guest monicker was only a part of the debate, and I for my part have enjoyed debating free speech as well as learning some more about organics.

Thanks for your time.

?

[pigletwillie]

Well said Chez, and far more elegantly put than my feeble attempt.