I'm out of practice making my own bread and I have come across a recurring problem I have.
Why oh why does the crust of the bread get so bloody hard? What am I doing wrong? It happens on every loaf i make.
I'm not using a bread machine, just my own delicate little pinkies...
So peeps, any advice would be greatly appreciated cos it's starting to drive me nuts...and I don't want to start buying bread from the supermaket again cos it's full of crap.
Thanks
Making bread
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peter
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Is that due to over-kneading?
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Hi Peter
I don't know...the receipe said to knead for 10 minutes which is what i've been doing....i'll try it for 5 instead and see what happens.
I also had a brainwave at 4am this morning (why do I always have them at 4am?) about putting foil over the top of the loaf, then remove for the last 5 mins of baking....
I'll have another try and see.....
I'd be interested to see what other people think too
I don't know...the receipe said to knead for 10 minutes which is what i've been doing....i'll try it for 5 instead and see what happens.
I also had a brainwave at 4am this morning (why do I always have them at 4am?) about putting foil over the top of the loaf, then remove for the last 5 mins of baking....
I'll have another try and see.....
I'd be interested to see what other people think too
Lots of love
Lizzie
Lizzie
I think you get a softer crust if you sprinkle it with flour before it goes into the oven. Or it might suggest that the oven is much hotter above than below and you might be able to cook more evenly by turning the loaf out of the tin a few minutes early and finishing it upside down. Or just turning it over if it isn't in a tin.
Hello Lizzie
I must say 10 min kneading would seem about right to me.
How are you doing the proving part of the process? Is the crust drying out during proving and then baking to a hard layer? I use one of those plastic storage boxes for proving - choose one that has a lid and is just a bit bigger than the bowls/trays/tins you're using. About 5 min before you put the dough in for proving splash in a little boiling water from the kettle to create a warm moist atmosphere. Its much simpler than covering with damp towels or oiled poly sheets.
Another thing you could try is to mist the top of the loaf to dampness just before you put it in the oven. This delays the cooking of the crust and you finish up with a thin crispy crust like in french bread. Not sure about your foil idea. If you are using an electric oven misting is a good idea anyway as their heat is much drier than in gas ones.
What shelf are you using? Using too high a shelf might be the cause of your problem. Middle shelf is usually recommended.
Just a few thoughts - hope they help. Nothing beats your own bread does it?
John
I must say 10 min kneading would seem about right to me.
How are you doing the proving part of the process? Is the crust drying out during proving and then baking to a hard layer? I use one of those plastic storage boxes for proving - choose one that has a lid and is just a bit bigger than the bowls/trays/tins you're using. About 5 min before you put the dough in for proving splash in a little boiling water from the kettle to create a warm moist atmosphere. Its much simpler than covering with damp towels or oiled poly sheets.
Another thing you could try is to mist the top of the loaf to dampness just before you put it in the oven. This delays the cooking of the crust and you finish up with a thin crispy crust like in french bread. Not sure about your foil idea. If you are using an electric oven misting is a good idea anyway as their heat is much drier than in gas ones.
What shelf are you using? Using too high a shelf might be the cause of your problem. Middle shelf is usually recommended.
Just a few thoughts - hope they help. Nothing beats your own bread does it?
John
The Gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men’s lives, the hours spent fishing Assyrian tablet
What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning Werner Heisenberg
I am a man and the world is my urinal
What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning Werner Heisenberg
I am a man and the world is my urinal
Thanks everyone...
I'm proving the bread in the tin it's to be cooked in and covering with a warm damp tea towel, which i chuck into the micro to heat it up every so often. I put the tins over the gas rings, and leave the oven on to get to temp, plus it generates a gentle heat at the bottom of the tin to help it to rise.
I cook with gas and use the top shelf..i'll have a bash at the middle one instead...although, to be honest, my cooker has just about had it. This could be a sign that I need a new one.
I will certainly try sprinkling with a little flour before cooking..and i'll do the heat mist bit too...i'm just about willing to try anything.
I first baked bread years ago...and i used to be rather good...it seems i have lost the knack. It's personal now..it's either me or I get a bloody good loaf
I'm proving the bread in the tin it's to be cooked in and covering with a warm damp tea towel, which i chuck into the micro to heat it up every so often. I put the tins over the gas rings, and leave the oven on to get to temp, plus it generates a gentle heat at the bottom of the tin to help it to rise.
I cook with gas and use the top shelf..i'll have a bash at the middle one instead...although, to be honest, my cooker has just about had it. This could be a sign that I need a new one.
I will certainly try sprinkling with a little flour before cooking..and i'll do the heat mist bit too...i'm just about willing to try anything.
I first baked bread years ago...and i used to be rather good...it seems i have lost the knack. It's personal now..it's either me or I get a bloody good loaf
Lots of love
Lizzie
Lizzie
What yeast are you using? I use Quick Yeast (much prefer Doves) in my dough mixtures and prove slowly at room temperatures. Longer proving times always give better loaves. Perhaps you are trying to speed things up too much by putting your tins over a warm oven to rise.
Could be that hot towels on the tins that's causing your problem?
John
Could be that hot towels on the tins that's causing your problem?
John
The Gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men’s lives, the hours spent fishing Assyrian tablet
What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning Werner Heisenberg
I am a man and the world is my urinal
What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning Werner Heisenberg
I am a man and the world is my urinal
I don't know if this applies to a gas oven, but in an electric oven you are always advised to put the loaves in the lower part of the oven. I bake all our own bread, and always put the tray on the lowest shelf, and the crust is never hard.
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vivienz
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Hi Lizzie,
If you add a little milk to the water or dried milk powder it gives a softer crust. You don't need a lot, about a quarter of your total liquid quantity. I wouldn't knead the bread for less than 10 mins by hand as it'll end up more like a scone than nice chewy bread.
On the subject of yeast, if you go to a Tesco with an in-store bakery and ask nicely, they will generally give you a great big slab of fresh yeast for nothing. About 15g of the fresh stuff will easily rise 800g (nearly 2lb) flour, and much more quickly than the dried stuff. The remaining yeast can be broken into (roughly) 15g chunks and frozen - works very well.
Haven't had dinner yet....mmm...fresh bread..must find something to eat!
Good luck,
Vivien
If you add a little milk to the water or dried milk powder it gives a softer crust. You don't need a lot, about a quarter of your total liquid quantity. I wouldn't knead the bread for less than 10 mins by hand as it'll end up more like a scone than nice chewy bread.
On the subject of yeast, if you go to a Tesco with an in-store bakery and ask nicely, they will generally give you a great big slab of fresh yeast for nothing. About 15g of the fresh stuff will easily rise 800g (nearly 2lb) flour, and much more quickly than the dried stuff. The remaining yeast can be broken into (roughly) 15g chunks and frozen - works very well.
Haven't had dinner yet....mmm...fresh bread..must find something to eat!
Good luck,
Vivien
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Colin_M
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Hi Lizzie, can you give us an update on what you were able to try and whether it made any difference?
I've gone through periods in the past when my bread (both from a machine and from the traditional oven) stopped behaving. Usually it starts working again and it can be frustrating to track down the cause.
I've gone through periods in the past when my bread (both from a machine and from the traditional oven) stopped behaving. Usually it starts working again and it can be frustrating to track down the cause.
I made a loaf in our breadmaker yesterday which was a disaster. A friend of mine, who weighs all her ingredients out on a set of scales, always makes very good bread. So I decided to make a loaf her way. There are marks on my cup to say 8 oz etc Well it did not work. Big time. It looked like the Incredible Hulk on a bad day. Then I read in the instructions that the measuring cup is based on the American standard 8 fluid oz cup. (a British cup is 10 fluid oz) I have made another one today but am still waiting for it to finish. But so far its looking okay.
I have another friend who makes batches of dough and freezes them and when needed just gets it out, defrosts it and bungs it in the oven, again it works for her. I always seem to have a disaster when trying that one. I wanted to try and reduce the salt and sugar needed but that doesnt seem to work either. In my white basic bread mix there are two teaspoons of salt and 3 tablespoons of sugar. I put three cups of strong white bread flour and one of brown or wholemeal.
I will just have to keep trying. Any suggestions on quantities would be gratefully received.
I have another friend who makes batches of dough and freezes them and when needed just gets it out, defrosts it and bungs it in the oven, again it works for her. I always seem to have a disaster when trying that one. I wanted to try and reduce the salt and sugar needed but that doesnt seem to work either. In my white basic bread mix there are two teaspoons of salt and 3 tablespoons of sugar. I put three cups of strong white bread flour and one of brown or wholemeal.
I will just have to keep trying. Any suggestions on quantities would be gratefully received.
Hello Catherine
I've found with my breadmaker (Panasonic) that there is little room for error. I use the more sensitive digital scales (max 2 kg weighing to + or - 1g) for most of the ingredients even the liquid. So for a basic white loaf the recipe is 1 tsp quick yeast, 500g bread flour, 25g butter or white flora, 1½ tbs dried milk, 1½ tsp salt and 350g water. Sugar is not necessary with quick yeast but can be added to give a sweeter slightly more moist loaf - I would say up to 1 tbs in this recipe.
Your recipe I reckon is based on 600g flour - my book gives 1 cup of flour as 150g and you're using 4 cups in all. If you're trying my recipe at this amount I'd suggest keeping the yeast, butter and salt quantity the same but sugar and dried mild milk could be increased by ½ tsp and use 400g of water.
I never got consistent results when I used cup as a measure even with the one that came with my machine.
Another thing I've learnt over the years by trial and many failures is that flour can vary a lot in quality. If things still don't turn out as they should try using a different make of flour. Doves is excellent but others like Carrs are pretty good - I've had poorer results with the big names like Allinsons and so on.
Hope this helps.
John
PS The dried milk is not essential in the mix. It just adds a bit of flavour and improves the crust colour.
PPS 1 tsp is equal to 5 ml and 1 tbs is 15 ml.
PPS Spreadable fats, marge or butter are OK but avoid those made with added water - this can be up to 25% in some stuff.
I've found with my breadmaker (Panasonic) that there is little room for error. I use the more sensitive digital scales (max 2 kg weighing to + or - 1g) for most of the ingredients even the liquid. So for a basic white loaf the recipe is 1 tsp quick yeast, 500g bread flour, 25g butter or white flora, 1½ tbs dried milk, 1½ tsp salt and 350g water. Sugar is not necessary with quick yeast but can be added to give a sweeter slightly more moist loaf - I would say up to 1 tbs in this recipe.
Your recipe I reckon is based on 600g flour - my book gives 1 cup of flour as 150g and you're using 4 cups in all. If you're trying my recipe at this amount I'd suggest keeping the yeast, butter and salt quantity the same but sugar and dried mild milk could be increased by ½ tsp and use 400g of water.
I never got consistent results when I used cup as a measure even with the one that came with my machine.
Another thing I've learnt over the years by trial and many failures is that flour can vary a lot in quality. If things still don't turn out as they should try using a different make of flour. Doves is excellent but others like Carrs are pretty good - I've had poorer results with the big names like Allinsons and so on.
Hope this helps.
John
PS The dried milk is not essential in the mix. It just adds a bit of flavour and improves the crust colour.
PPS 1 tsp is equal to 5 ml and 1 tbs is 15 ml.
PPS Spreadable fats, marge or butter are OK but avoid those made with added water - this can be up to 25% in some stuff.
Last edited by John on Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The Gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men’s lives, the hours spent fishing Assyrian tablet
What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning Werner Heisenberg
I am a man and the world is my urinal
What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning Werner Heisenberg
I am a man and the world is my urinal
Thanks John I will try your recipe and see how I go on. My Morphy Richards bread maker gives good and bad results depending how the measuring is going. My loaf today came out very well though I forgot to make it on the light setting and it was a little brown for us. I would hate to see what the dark setting would be as this smelled of burning about a minute before we took it out of the machine. I will let you know how I go on. Thanks again.