Hiya
I am new here and this is my very first post so be kind .
I am a novice gardener in every sence of the word I haven't grown anything ever but we have a largeish space in our garden that never gets used and hence is always overgrown .
we have decided to put it too use and turn it into a veggie patch it is a great space and it gets lots of sun but is also exposed.
we need to prepare the area but at the mopment it is so overgrown with weeds I just don't know where to start. in previous years we have cleared them but they just keep returning we have an apple tree planted in the area so I am a bit worried about using weed killer . but like I said I am a comolete novice and know nothing so I really need some advice .
ideally i would love to be organic but I'm not planting anything until next year so presumably anything i put on it this year will be gone by then.
I welcome any advice you can give on getting my weed ridden space ready for planting.
TIA
Jane
need help with new patch
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bigpepperplant
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Hi Jane
I'm not much further on from you knowledge-wise so I'm sure someone will give you better advice, but I'd use Round-Up (being careful not to get it near the apple tree) and then cover the ground with black plastic or weed-suppressing membrane. Come autumn I'd rotavate it and incorporate well-rotted manure and the start planting next spring.
I'm not much further on from you knowledge-wise so I'm sure someone will give you better advice, but I'd use Round-Up (being careful not to get it near the apple tree) and then cover the ground with black plastic or weed-suppressing membrane. Come autumn I'd rotavate it and incorporate well-rotted manure and the start planting next spring.
HI Jane,welcome to the mad house! Like you, I'm new to this gardening lark having only started this year. I set out to tame my veg plot(converted from a field) and was determined not to use weedkiller. BIG MISTAKE!! If you're clearing a new area such as you describe you'll need to zap the b@@@ers with something or you'll still be digging up bindweed in 5 years time! I think Glyphosate (someone will correct my spelling) is the one the people recommend because it kills the weeds without contaminating the ground. I also think I remember reading that spuds are a good crop to start off with as they break up the soil and help smother weeds. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong! Anyway,goodluck & have fun!
Welcome to all of you. I am very glad you made it as since the Forum was rehashed there have been next to no 'Newbies', maybe the technology puts many off.
I will see that you don't go without the necessary starter help but I won't do it myself at the moment as I hope that there are others willing to do the honours. However if you are itching to get a start please get a copy of The Fruit and Vegetable Gardener by Dr David Hessayon, it is stocked by many Garden & DIY Centres and bookshops and will give you much of what you need to know at a budget price.
Allan
I will see that you don't go without the necessary starter help but I won't do it myself at the moment as I hope that there are others willing to do the honours. However if you are itching to get a start please get a copy of The Fruit and Vegetable Gardener by Dr David Hessayon, it is stocked by many Garden & DIY Centres and bookshops and will give you much of what you need to know at a budget price.
Allan
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fen not fen
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If you are determined to be organic (and glyphostae is not as safe for the user as the manufacturers would have you believe), and you aren't going to use the ground til next year I would recommend clearing the worst of the overgrowth (ie any brambles, trees etc), strim the rest and leave it where it is. Cover with black plastic or landscape fabric and weight it down well and leave it til next spring. This will starve out the majority of the weeds. You will have to be vigilant in the next couple of years to get rid of the really perisitent ones, but its a solution if you absolutely down't want to use chemicals. If you can get any well rotted compost of manure to put under the plastic as well, so much the better as you will be adding to the fertility of the soil.
" If you can get any well rotted compost of manure to put under the plastic as well, so much the better as you will be adding to the fertility of the soil."
...and most probably the weed population if that were possible.I curse the day that I used horse manure in my polytunnels, chickweed has been a scourge ever since.
...and most probably the weed population if that were possible.I curse the day that I used horse manure in my polytunnels, chickweed has been a scourge ever since.
I suggest you look at the 'links' page from this forum. There are many useful links, in particular the following will give you links to links which will keep you busy for a long time.
Allan
http://www.kitchengardens.dial.pipex.com/
Allan
http://www.kitchengardens.dial.pipex.com/
If you resort to black plastic, make sure it will stand the weather Particularly the sun.
I purchased a few hundred metres of black/white plastic last year from NA Kays. One side was black and the other white. The white side reflects light, so if you plant strawberries etc thro' it the light is reflected back to the plant.
However, as the main purpose was to kill off the grass and weeds I was unsure which way was the best to lay it. So I did a bit of both. I first layed the plastic in May 2005. Most of the Black up was becoming brittle and breaking up last autumn, but the white side up is still in position. Where the black side up was the grass and moss grew back over winter.
Heavy duty woven weed suppressor, although expensive will last several years and in the long run will work out cheaper!
I have not use sprays for years....until having received information on this forum about Glyphosate and having spent 2 afternoons digging out thistles and nettles in April I gave up the Organic aspiration and bought a bottle of Glyphosate and happily spray away.
Not all Organic solutions are good... there is a relative of the Franch marigold, which will suppress weed growth...however it poisons the soil for years...and you can bet that the first plants that grow after the poison has gone will be weeds!
I purchased a few hundred metres of black/white plastic last year from NA Kays. One side was black and the other white. The white side reflects light, so if you plant strawberries etc thro' it the light is reflected back to the plant.
However, as the main purpose was to kill off the grass and weeds I was unsure which way was the best to lay it. So I did a bit of both. I first layed the plastic in May 2005. Most of the Black up was becoming brittle and breaking up last autumn, but the white side up is still in position. Where the black side up was the grass and moss grew back over winter.
Heavy duty woven weed suppressor, although expensive will last several years and in the long run will work out cheaper!
I have not use sprays for years....until having received information on this forum about Glyphosate and having spent 2 afternoons digging out thistles and nettles in April I gave up the Organic aspiration and bought a bottle of Glyphosate and happily spray away.
Not all Organic solutions are good... there is a relative of the Franch marigold, which will suppress weed growth...however it poisons the soil for years...and you can bet that the first plants that grow after the poison has gone will be weeds!
I don't suffer from insanity .... I enjoy it!
Vivianne
Vivianne
thanks everso much for the help. we spent yesterday clearing some of the weeds and bromb;es but i know whe haven't dealt with the problem as a lot of the roots are still in place .
I will take all of your advice into consideration and reasearch some more .
thankyou
Jane
I will take all of your advice into consideration and reasearch some more .
thankyou
Jane
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Geoff
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Difficult to know what to suggest without knowing how big the area is. I’m assuming it is small enough to bring it all into use at one go. If it isn’t, keep it cut with regular strimming until you can complete the other stages. Could sheet it over bit I’m not a fan.
Define The Area – put a path round it, preferably solid, I like concrete, wide enough for a wheelbarrow.
Build A Compost Bin – preferably at least three bays and start collecting.
Strim It – cut it close, if it is soft a line strimmer will be fine, if it is tough use a brushcutter disc, if a lawn mower will cope use that. Rake off the debris, if it is not too woody or seedy put it in the compost otherwise burn it.
Roundup – wait for 10 – 14 days for some regrowth then treat with Roundup. Anything green after 2 weeks give it another dose.
Dig It – take the top 2” off a strip about 15” wide and mix that into the compost heap. Dig the first trench in the bare area a spade deep and wide moving the soil to storage at the other end of the patch, say in a wheelbarrow or on a sheet of plastic. Skim 2” off another strip and chop it up in the bottom of the trench so you always have just over a spade width of bare earth ahead of you. If you have imported any manure or already have any compost put some of that in the trench and continue digging like that.
Plan – decide what you want to grow. If it is a biggish patch think about rotations (lots of books tell you about rotations) and possibly dividing it with more paths to make planning and looking after it easier. 10’ foot wide beds can be comfortably hoed by working from each side. Do you want any soft fruit? Plan an area and give best possible treatment ready to plant it in the Autumn.
Get Something In - the way you will encourage yourself to keep at is to grow and eat something this year. Salads, French Beans, some bought in greens plants (careful about the provenance, don’t want to import club root), sweet corn, courgettes. Anybody suggest any other crops starting in mid June? Don’t plant too closely in the first year as you want to be able to hoe easily as there could well be a lot of weed seeds. If it gets away from you just rescue what you can and repeat the weed killer.
Diary – start a diary, record what you do and where so you can rotate things and gradually learn the timings for your situation.
Give Up the Day Job – not seriously, that’s just my plan but the b******s won’t pay my pension early!
This is just my view but I think if you start in a tidy way so it is easier to look after and start eating your own produce as soon as possible you are more likely to stick at it.
Define The Area – put a path round it, preferably solid, I like concrete, wide enough for a wheelbarrow.
Build A Compost Bin – preferably at least three bays and start collecting.
Strim It – cut it close, if it is soft a line strimmer will be fine, if it is tough use a brushcutter disc, if a lawn mower will cope use that. Rake off the debris, if it is not too woody or seedy put it in the compost otherwise burn it.
Roundup – wait for 10 – 14 days for some regrowth then treat with Roundup. Anything green after 2 weeks give it another dose.
Dig It – take the top 2” off a strip about 15” wide and mix that into the compost heap. Dig the first trench in the bare area a spade deep and wide moving the soil to storage at the other end of the patch, say in a wheelbarrow or on a sheet of plastic. Skim 2” off another strip and chop it up in the bottom of the trench so you always have just over a spade width of bare earth ahead of you. If you have imported any manure or already have any compost put some of that in the trench and continue digging like that.
Plan – decide what you want to grow. If it is a biggish patch think about rotations (lots of books tell you about rotations) and possibly dividing it with more paths to make planning and looking after it easier. 10’ foot wide beds can be comfortably hoed by working from each side. Do you want any soft fruit? Plan an area and give best possible treatment ready to plant it in the Autumn.
Get Something In - the way you will encourage yourself to keep at is to grow and eat something this year. Salads, French Beans, some bought in greens plants (careful about the provenance, don’t want to import club root), sweet corn, courgettes. Anybody suggest any other crops starting in mid June? Don’t plant too closely in the first year as you want to be able to hoe easily as there could well be a lot of weed seeds. If it gets away from you just rescue what you can and repeat the weed killer.
Diary – start a diary, record what you do and where so you can rotate things and gradually learn the timings for your situation.
Give Up the Day Job – not seriously, that’s just my plan but the b******s won’t pay my pension early!
This is just my view but I think if you start in a tidy way so it is easier to look after and start eating your own produce as soon as possible you are more likely to stick at it.
thankyou so much for that post its very helpful. your right it is big enough for us to get going aall in one go( with another side to bring in if it goes well this year , right now its barked for the children to play in) we are growing tomatoes in a growbag and carrots in a bucket or two I plan to get a couple more containers to grow in this year ( our local garden center has lots of lettuces and cucumbers )
The ground is very stoney so I was planning on building some raised beds I have bought "the vegetable and herb expert" which gives lots of tips for growing and preperation but didn't really help with how to deal with the weeds.
as for the job I don't have one . I am a stay at home mum with a toddler who loves nothing more than helping in the garden so I think we will do fine once at least most of the weed battle has been won.
The ground is very stoney so I was planning on building some raised beds I have bought "the vegetable and herb expert" which gives lots of tips for growing and preperation but didn't really help with how to deal with the weeds.
as for the job I don't have one . I am a stay at home mum with a toddler who loves nothing more than helping in the garden so I think we will do fine once at least most of the weed battle has been won.
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oldherbaceous
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Dear Jane, you said you don't have a job. 
But to me, you have one of the most important jobs going, and at times probably one of the hardest jobs.
I find it very refreshing, not only can you keep the house look after your child, you are going to tackle your garden.
Very impressed.
Kind regards Old Herbaceous.
Theres no fool like an old fool.
But to me, you have one of the most important jobs going, and at times probably one of the hardest jobs.
I find it very refreshing, not only can you keep the house look after your child, you are going to tackle your garden.
Very impressed.
Kind regards Old Herbaceous.
Theres no fool like an old fool.
Hi Jane,
If Glyphosate is used some people will frown but they are generally those who are against the use of Chemical under any circumstances. This is what is called sheer Dogma!
My advice is to use Glyphosate taking all the necessary precautions that you will find in the instructions that accompany the product. If you use it properly you may only ever have to use it once and maybe a second time with some persistent perennial weeds and then just so long as you keep yoyr plot in reasonable condition you will never have to use it again. You can then grow your vegatables using organic methods which is what you are endeavouring to do. If you listen to the cover up and leave and don't use a chemical brigade quite frankly you will be buggering about for years wasting hours of valuable time instead of concentrating on growing good wholesome food for your family.
Of course this is only my personal opinion so you must choose which method you will use for yourself.
If Glyphosate is used some people will frown but they are generally those who are against the use of Chemical under any circumstances. This is what is called sheer Dogma!
My advice is to use Glyphosate taking all the necessary precautions that you will find in the instructions that accompany the product. If you use it properly you may only ever have to use it once and maybe a second time with some persistent perennial weeds and then just so long as you keep yoyr plot in reasonable condition you will never have to use it again. You can then grow your vegatables using organic methods which is what you are endeavouring to do. If you listen to the cover up and leave and don't use a chemical brigade quite frankly you will be buggering about for years wasting hours of valuable time instead of concentrating on growing good wholesome food for your family.
Of course this is only my personal opinion so you must choose which method you will use for yourself.
JB.
In an ideal world yes i would love to be fully organic but the reason for doing this is mostly so that I can feed my family food that I know where it came from and whats been put on it. so I am not adverse to using chemicals as long as I know what they are and that they are safe .
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Compo
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Hi Jane I agree with everything that Geoff said, if you work hard on your plot, you will eventually minimise the weeds, bringing in outside compost will bring weed seeds but hey this is nature, they can be hoed off in this warm weather. I personally would avoid any chemicals, but hey I would say this I grow to eat not to sell!
I put everything on my compost heap, I have four small heaps now and intend to leave them for at least a year before using the finished project. Synthetic membranes are great, and if you have a little cash, you can also buy timber for raised beds and put bark or woodchip on the paths, ultimately follow your own instincts, I go for raised beds every time even mixing crops within the beds. But definitely grow something this year, even some well sprouted spuds (plant them through the weeds after strimming) the earthing up process will allow you to pull out the weeds as you earth up.
Ultimately you will get conflicting advice but try what appeals to you....
Good luck and welcome to the forum
Compo ( I live under my heap!!)
I put everything on my compost heap, I have four small heaps now and intend to leave them for at least a year before using the finished project. Synthetic membranes are great, and if you have a little cash, you can also buy timber for raised beds and put bark or woodchip on the paths, ultimately follow your own instincts, I go for raised beds every time even mixing crops within the beds. But definitely grow something this year, even some well sprouted spuds (plant them through the weeds after strimming) the earthing up process will allow you to pull out the weeds as you earth up.
Ultimately you will get conflicting advice but try what appeals to you....
Good luck and welcome to the forum
Compo ( I live under my heap!!)
If I am not on the plot, I am not happy.........