Kitchen Garden Forum

thetangoman wrote:Well depsite the comments I intend to continue trimming both roots and tops of my leeks..the result prove they benefit from this , also planting deep with a dibber , up to a foot if posible ..provides some wonderfull leeks..

Just proves we have our methods that work for us over many many years of trying and testing others !!

Hmm! Is this a case of post hoc ergo propter hoc? You top and tail your leeks and get good leeks, therefore the practice works? Have you tried growing topped and tailed and untrimmed side by side to compare the results?

Leeks seem to have a strong will to grow - they succeed in spite of us.

Well said Geoff.......

We should all remember, different ways work better for different people.
There's no one way that matches all situations, everyones time, weather conditions, growing facilities and end needs, all vary so much.

So just grow them how you think best, but if you do get time to try growing them another way that someone else has recommended, please do try it.

oldherbaceous wrote:Well said Geoff.......

We should all remember, different ways work better for different people.
There's no one way that matches all situations, everyones time, weather conditions, growing facilities and end needs, all vary so much.

So just grow them how you think best, but if you do get time to try growing them another way that someone else has recommended, please do try it.

I agree with these sentiments entirely and in the case of leeks have grown them both ways with little difference but you do what you are confident with. I grow lots of things in completely the 'wrong' way and often the results are just fine.

Some people swear by growing carrots off the ground and yet I know of others who have done this and still been plagued with carrotfly. Gardening isn't an exact science.

I agree with you tangoman. It is good to listen to all the various views on how to do things but at the end of the day you do what works best for you.
It's the old story that there are as many ways of doing things are there are gardeners.

Beryl.

the reason for trimming the tops is to reduce water loss by transpiration & help the young plant to establish quickly. trimming the roots stimulates new root growth. I always plant mine quite deep. bear in mind that usually the weather is hot & dry at this time of year so water loss has to be kept to a minimum while the young plant re-establishes itself .

Hmm! Is this a case of post hoc ergo propter hoc? You top and tail your leeks and get good leeks, therefore the practice works? Have you tried growing topped and tailed and untrimmed side by side to compare the results?[/quote]

Yes..had a couple of rows for a few seasons to see ..and the results were not as good , thinner and shorter leeks were produced compared to the trimmed leeks
And Farmer John mentions an important point ..water loss , bigger the leave the bigger the water loss...plus root stimulation..

Anyway let the deabte roll on I say...never too old to learn , just as long as we are not to old to listen !!!

The bigger the leaf the more photosynthesism will take place!
I do not know how old Farmer Jon is but originally commercially Leeks were sown in huge nursery rows and had to be dug up from the row before planting out in the field and the topping and tailing is the result of damage that occurred to root and leaf during that process.
If you grow in nursery rows now then maybe topping and tailing should be done but with most gardeners no longer using that method then topping and tailing is no longer required.
However as has been said previously if you are happy to top and tail nobody would argue with that least of all me.
JB.

for information , I am 47 & spent all my working life in commercial horticulture/farming.
with regard to the post about the bigger the leaf,the more photosynthesis.
yes, but this is only of use to an established plant. when transplanted,the roots are unable to take up large amounts of water until they re-establish. if the weather is hot & windy then the amount of water lost due to transpiration far exceeds the amount taken up by the roots & the plant suffers. to reduce the leaf surface area , they are trimmed. in the same way it is beyond belief the number of people who plant out brassicas in full hot sun on a windy day,then wonder why they wilt in a short time. just think of the best weather for drying washing....windy & sunny,sucks all the moisture out. far better to wait & transplant on a calm,overcast day.

Hi Farmer Jon,
As you are involved in commercial horticulture you must know the topping and tailing has been discontued by all but a few commercial Leek growers.
This thread is dealing with gardeners and allotmenteers who do not grow vast numbers of anything.
There are many many different ways of doing most things and it would appear leeks have proved no exception.
I have explained the method that I use and by not trimming either root or foliage but by planting deep has proved to be very successful. The roots of my plants grown in modules are to a degree rootbound but still very able to take up water from the off. The tops are barely visible when planting takes place and the ratio of water take-up to the transpiration rate through the leaves would therefore be almost immeasurable.
Before the foliage is more than 2" above the soil the roots would be in a state to cope with whatever the weather manages to do to the foliage.
BTW I am now retired from the world of Horticulture but by profession was a propagator and nursery owner and fully qualified. I also have links to farming and forestry to the present day.
JB.

Hi jb, nice to know there are a few on here from the industry. I speak about my sightings on various allots up here in the north. a lot of leeks are supplied in strips or boxes & have been broadcast sown. these usually have quite good flags on them & once people have separated them, then there is very little undamaged root. they don't seem to follow the traditional dibber method ,but instead just plant them very high up in the soil. the sight of 5-6inches of broad flag flapping about on the surface like a limp lettuce is very disheartening. it is these people who would benefit from trimming the top and roots.
as your own are grown in modules then obviously very little check to growth will occur. one major mail order supplier sends out their leeks with absolutely no soil on the root ,just wrapped in damp tissue paper. they have quite large tops too . I know they are grown in boxes of 50 or more then broken up prior to posting out. it is these that i refer to in my postings.
hope the weather is better down your way,forecast 3 days heavy rain up here !

let the debate roll on..just like to confirm at 58 yrs old, been in Horticulture all my life as man and boy..taught it commercially for 35 yrs, had a nursery as well , small holding and now a lottie and I can confirm also that through my involvment with the RHS trimming tops and roots is very much alive today

Hi Farmer Jon,
Now the picture you have unfolded makes a great difference and in the instances you describe then topping and tailing would or could be an advantage.
The people who plant on the surface are, I would think, novice gardeners or those who have little knowledge and refuse to conform.
I used to sell vegetable plants by mail order and especially Leeks and these were all module grown packed top to tail like sardines if you can get the picture. I never once had a complaint that they under performed.
A leaflet of how to plant (my method) accomanied the order.
Commercially today many leeks are sown in situ and grow on the surface
which is certainly much easier to grow and seed producers have been breeding them to grow taller in an effort to have a longer white shank and rely heavily on processing the leek before the customer buys them to expose the white shank. This method is far easier for mechanical handling. There is absolutely no reason why a person growing their own leeks should follow the commercial methods.
Our weather turned last evening and it has been raining most of the night and it is at present a light drizzle and is likely, according to the forecast remain so for a few days.
Hay making is a nightmare this year. We have made very little so far but there is a very good yield to be had given the right conditions.
JB.
PS it would be nice to know in which area you actually live