Global warming, or not...

[Chantal]

What are we to make of THIS!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main ... do1610.xml

[retropants]

well, going by how cold my nose was this morning after cycling to work, I can only conclude that global warming must be cobblers.

[Johnboy]

Hi Chantal,
What a good article. It seems that the Channel 4 programme was not that far of the mark after all.
I have just taken over an hour reading the comments on the article. So much for statistics!
One comment was:
"If you want to buy carbon Credits apply to Al Gore!" Seriously though there are some very good letters pointing out so many inconsistencies with the Global Warning Lobby where statistics have been turned on their head to make the case.
If you remember with the channel 4 programme the scientist responsible for taking the Arctic ice-core samples saying that the powers that be deliberately misquoted his findings in order to make their case.
I have still got very grave doubts with regards to the entire issue. Certainly global warming and cooling has been going on a lot longer than man has been about. To me this would suggest a natural phenomena and man and his machines has very little to do with it. When man can tame the sun, then and only then, can man say that he can can control the planet.
JB.

[PAULW]

GW is is a lie propogated by goverments so they can get more tax from the pleb.

[PLUMPUDDING]

We don't need global warming to cause mayhem, we are doing it ourselves.

There are far too many people using up all the earth's resources, destroying forests, driving many other species to extinction and causing pollution.

If we care about the planet we should be doing whatever we can to use less and create less waste. Worryingly, we have to rely on governments to take the major steps like protecting the rainforests, marine conservation, power generation etc. But we still need to do our bit. The earth is facing disaster if we carry on as we are, and I fear it is already too late to reverse things. People are too greedy.

So whether pollution is causing global warming or not we are in a mess.

[Geoff]

At least governments do their bit for population control by upping defence spending to kill more people.

[Johnboy]

Hi Plumpudding,
I am afraid that I do not share your pessimistic view of life on earth.
I think that with your attitude everything will go wrong.
Look into what is good about life on earth and not what is described by many which is artificially gloomy.
Take for instance that the news will always be of people and especially children who commit these awful acts. Now with your point of view that means everybody is like them but in truth they represent a very small percentage of the population. There are many more wonderful people and certainly many more children who are absolutely wonderful.
Now come to global warming and mans so called destruction of the planet which I am afraid is where you and I will always differ. We are not being told the truth by those who have a vested interest to make money out of over stressing their case.
Carbon Dioxide is and always has been present in vast quantities and remember every time you and I breath out we add to your dilemma. The case for such stringent controls on carbon dioxide has yet to be proven.
May I quote the case of Mount St Helen in the USA when the SCIENTIFIC data collected proved that more pollution was put into the atmosphere with one big bang than all the internal and external combustion engines ever produced since their invention. Couple this with the fact that world wide there are many volcanoes that we never hear about and then try and blame man for ALL the pollution.
Perhaps the world is not perfect but perhaps it never will be or for that matter ever was!
JB.

[PLUMPUDDING]

Funny, I thought you would disagree Johnboy.

I've seen the destruction of the rainforest in Borneo and it is devastating. Ancient forest has been cut down and grubbed out as far as the eye can see in order to plant palm for palm oil. We drove along an almost straight road for two hours and that was all we could see. They do boat trips along the rivers to see the wildlife which is lovely, but when you realise that the wildlife is only there because the few trees that they have left are along the edges of the rivers and the animals have nowhere else to go for their food and shelter it is very sad.

I try not to think about what we are doing to the planet as it is too upsetting, but the global warming letter spurred me to say something. Also there is a huge amount of other data showing that there is global warming (whether it is caused by us or whether it is a natural event). Just because the people in denial have found an error in one bit of information doesn't mean it isn't happening. If we can take steps to combat this then we should do, not just individually, but on a world scale, and hopefully this action will protect all the rainforests, marine environments etc, and everything else, including us, that rely on them.

I love the countryside and nature and am very happy in my garden with all the beauty around me and I encourage, protect and appreciate everything I have.

[Johnboy]

Hi Plumpudding,
No you haven't seem the destruction of the rainforest in Borneo. What you have seen is a comparatively small area of rainforest cleared to grow palms for palm oil. When you say the few trees that are left means that you really haven't grasped how large the rain forest of Borneo is.
As it happens I am quite familiar with Borneo, maybe now a few years back, but you can fly over Borneo for several hours without seeing anything but total rainforest so whether you know it or not you are exaggerating the case. I feel that you have fallen into, what I call, the European Trap. This means that we have people who from their very comfortable position in Europe take it upon themselves to think that they can control the well being of another part of the world irrespective of the fate of the people living in these countries. You never go to bed hungry
but there are many in Borneo and other areas of the world who do. Who are you to to have the audacity to try and determine what the people of Borneo do with their land. They have to trade with the rest of the world and if by sacrificing, but a very minute area of their rainforest, to give them sufficient wealth to do so, so be it!
I am not, and never have, denied that global warming is occurring but whether is is caused by mans activities is still very open to question. Certainly pollution must be dealt with but I feel that DEFRA treating FYM as toxic waste and licencing only certain people to deal with or transport it is simply another form of taxation which we can do without. To me the whole thing is getting out of hand.
The very strange thing is that for years the green lobby put up the proposals that we must produce electricity from wind, water and tidal means
yet as soon as something is proposed they are the very first people to complain that the countryside is going to be defiled. What this really means is that they have these wonderful theories but they simple do not have the capacity to envisage what their theories will entail. They then cause havoc in an area and bring their mates from as far as 200 miles away to help them put up banners and heckle at public meeting anybody who doesn't agree with what they are saying!
I do not consider that we are in a mess and therefore do not appreciate what you are saying.
Your quote. "I love the countryside and nature and am very happy in my garden with all the beauty around me and I encourage, protect and appreciate everything I have."
Well your corner of the planet seems to be going well and so is mine so why do you paint such a pessimistic scenario?
JB.

[oldherbaceous]

Morning Johnboy, just to put my mind at rest, could you tell me what is the real percentage of rain forest lost over the last ten years in Borneo?
And how do the indigenous hunter gatherer tribes gain from the experience?

I might be wrong, but all i can see in these situations is big companies making the money.

[alan refail]

Morning Old Herbaceous

I thought that, like me, you were wisely keeping out of this "debate". But sometimes you just have to get involved.
In case Johnboy hasn't got the answer to your question, I did a little searching and came up with this from National Geographic Magazine. I thought that posting anything from a "green lobby" site would be too much of a red rag. According National Geographic, only 50% of Borneo, the world's third largest island, "remains forested".

[Colin Miles]

But Alan, what is the answer to OH's question?

[Johnboy]

Thank you Alan,
Do remember that the whole of Borneo was not rain forest in the fist place.
It would appear that it is illegal operations that are the villain of the peace.
Sadly I suspect that corruption plays a very large part of the problem.
I have not flown over Borneo since about 1969 and things seem to have got worse than then when even then illegal logging was going on.
But 50% of Borneo is certainly not just a few remaining trees! It is still millions of them.
What really does concern me is where a slash and burn policy is pursued. Now I will agree that this is totally wrong. It totally wastes the timber resource. If it has to come down let it be done responsibly and the timber put to good use.
The Borneo authorities are very away of the illegal operations but it is a very harsh terrain to police.
But we can only advise them of the best policies and the rest sadly is down to them.
JB.

[alan refail]

But Alan, what is the answer to OH's question?

Sorry Colin, but I did my best to find something before breakfast.

I do not know the answer to OH's question. You may find some answers HERE, which suggests that at the present rate the whole of the rainforest could be gone in the next two years.

Some more info and facts and figures HERE

[oldherbaceous]

I always try and look on the bright side of life, and was really hoping that what i have read and seen reported, was slightly exaggerated.
But reading the links provided in seems to be worse than i thought.
How i wish they have got it wrong.