Roundup is glyphosate but glyphosate doesn't have to be Roundup, there are cheaper alternative brands which are identical chemically. The fast Roundup in the spray bottle has extra ingredients, very handy for a quicker kill of the odd offender.
You will find a particular problem fro a few seasons at least, that when you sow seeds the annual weeds come up before the crop which can be a great problem of hand-weeding so it pays to concentrate in early days on individual transplants that can be put into already hoed ground. There are not many plants that cannot be started in pots or modules of clean compost. All the chemicals in the world won't clear this weed seedbank instantly, meticulous weeding for 7 years in theory sorts it out.
Allan
need help with new patch
Moderators: KG Steve, Chantal, Tigger, peter
I think that the biggest problem with anyone starting from scratch is the reluctance to use weedkillers. They are invaluable if used appropriately, and can save hours of effort.
I would clear the weeds, and when they regrow, spray with glyphosate (Roundup). if the weeds are deep rooted they may need a couple of goes.
Cultivating the ground and incorporating some organic matter will also loosen the soil. and will mean that weeds that do reappear will be dealt with more easily. Any organic matter is better than none, and if weeds get imported they are usually easy to pull up.
Mulching is also good, and will suppress a lot of the weed growth that is inevitable on new ground.
I would clear the weeds, and when they regrow, spray with glyphosate (Roundup). if the weeds are deep rooted they may need a couple of goes.
Cultivating the ground and incorporating some organic matter will also loosen the soil. and will mean that weeds that do reappear will be dealt with more easily. Any organic matter is better than none, and if weeds get imported they are usually easy to pull up.
Mulching is also good, and will suppress a lot of the weed growth that is inevitable on new ground.
Hi Jane,
Just a little progress note.
This weekend my partner was rotavating an area which had the afore mentioned black and white plastic on. This had been down for just over a year now. He was so impressed by the ease that the rotavator sunk into the soil, about 6 inches at the first pass compared with 1 inch on ground that had not had black plastic on, but had been weed killed with glysophate.
He was begging me to put more plastic down for next year's rotavating!
As mentioned before, I wish I had bought heavier duty plastic last year, as it is impossible to reuse the plastic that I had last year.
Another thought is you could use a scythe to cut down your weeds....it will go through brambles! and is far quieter than a strimmer, cheaper to run, very lightwieght and it costs the same amount to buy as it does to hire a petrol strimmer from my local hire centre!.(see link below)
http://www.ascott.biz/acatalog/Horticultural_Equipment.html
Just a little progress note.
This weekend my partner was rotavating an area which had the afore mentioned black and white plastic on. This had been down for just over a year now. He was so impressed by the ease that the rotavator sunk into the soil, about 6 inches at the first pass compared with 1 inch on ground that had not had black plastic on, but had been weed killed with glysophate.
He was begging me to put more plastic down for next year's rotavating!
As mentioned before, I wish I had bought heavier duty plastic last year, as it is impossible to reuse the plastic that I had last year.
Another thought is you could use a scythe to cut down your weeds....it will go through brambles! and is far quieter than a strimmer, cheaper to run, very lightwieght and it costs the same amount to buy as it does to hire a petrol strimmer from my local hire centre!.(see link below)
http://www.ascott.biz/acatalog/Horticultural_Equipment.html
Last edited by vivie veg on Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
I don't suffer from insanity .... I enjoy it!
Vivianne
Vivianne
Hi Viv,
I have got some beds that have been covered for many years and the Heavy Duty Polythene is still in good condition. The HDP was obtained from a local Buildres Merchants and is the Polythene used as waterproof membrane I think it is called 1250 gauge.
It is quite expensive but I feel that the outlay is well worth it.
What you have said about covering with Polythene on some soils but on clay is it the same? I am hoping somebody who has covered Clay for a year will tell us if it has made the digging easier. Certainly here, with my soil, I have found that what you have said is true but I am not sure about all soils.
This soil here has been tilled by the family since 1720 but when I took over, due to ill health, it had not been touched for more than 15 years and I had just about every weed imaginable and regret that this was before Polythene was around. So I used Pigs which are good at clearing the land but have a great tendency to spread Couch grass and not clear it.(but thats another story)
I have got some beds that have been covered for many years and the Heavy Duty Polythene is still in good condition. The HDP was obtained from a local Buildres Merchants and is the Polythene used as waterproof membrane I think it is called 1250 gauge.
It is quite expensive but I feel that the outlay is well worth it.
What you have said about covering with Polythene on some soils but on clay is it the same? I am hoping somebody who has covered Clay for a year will tell us if it has made the digging easier. Certainly here, with my soil, I have found that what you have said is true but I am not sure about all soils.
This soil here has been tilled by the family since 1720 but when I took over, due to ill health, it had not been touched for more than 15 years and I had just about every weed imaginable and regret that this was before Polythene was around. So I used Pigs which are good at clearing the land but have a great tendency to spread Couch grass and not clear it.(but thats another story)
JB.
Hi Johnboy,
My soil is almost pure clay....it has been closed grazed by sheep for centuries, with very little left behind to get absorbed into the soil.
There were a lot of worms closed to or on the surface when I took up the plastic and the soil was totally different to that which had not been covered.
We were discussing using Damp course plastic, all I'll have to do now is price it up. Each of my plots is 30m x 30m (100ft x100ft) or there abouts. I have a book which gives seed use, expected yields etc for 3m rows, so I just multiply by 10 to get the necessary figure for 30m rows. But as you can see, thats a lot of plastic!
My soil is almost pure clay....it has been closed grazed by sheep for centuries, with very little left behind to get absorbed into the soil.
There were a lot of worms closed to or on the surface when I took up the plastic and the soil was totally different to that which had not been covered.
We were discussing using Damp course plastic, all I'll have to do now is price it up. Each of my plots is 30m x 30m (100ft x100ft) or there abouts. I have a book which gives seed use, expected yields etc for 3m rows, so I just multiply by 10 to get the necessary figure for 30m rows. But as you can see, thats a lot of plastic!
I don't suffer from insanity .... I enjoy it!
Vivianne
Vivianne
Hi viv,
Well I got my answer quicker than I imagined!
I have got just over an acre covered and that was done a while now and I have not bought any HD Poly since.
The black sheeting is more difficult to get as the building industry mainly use Blue Poly now.
I know that our local builders merchants still stock it because a friend bought some recently. Of course he is the friend who is in the Czech Repuplic for an unspecified time on as forestry project so I cannot ask him but will enquire at the builders merchant when I am that way on Thursday. It is always good to get a comparison.
My plot goes from solid rock to anything up to 4ft of wonderful soil. I live threequarters up a hill on a kind of plateau and my good fortune is the result of errosion over the millions of years it has all been here. There is no sign of clay anywhere. Clay has one thing going for it it is jammed packed full of natural chemicals and if you can once tame it all you are on to a winner. Thirty odd years ago I lived in Hertfordshire and that is almost solid clay.
That is where my method of growing Carrots on clay comes from. However this is not helping Jane to prepare her new patch or not directly at any rate.
Scythes have a number of drawbacks apart from being a back breaking exercise. I have not used one for 30 years and now it would be too much for me to handle.
That is a young persons past time.
Well I got my answer quicker than I imagined!
I have got just over an acre covered and that was done a while now and I have not bought any HD Poly since.
The black sheeting is more difficult to get as the building industry mainly use Blue Poly now.
I know that our local builders merchants still stock it because a friend bought some recently. Of course he is the friend who is in the Czech Repuplic for an unspecified time on as forestry project so I cannot ask him but will enquire at the builders merchant when I am that way on Thursday. It is always good to get a comparison.
My plot goes from solid rock to anything up to 4ft of wonderful soil. I live threequarters up a hill on a kind of plateau and my good fortune is the result of errosion over the millions of years it has all been here. There is no sign of clay anywhere. Clay has one thing going for it it is jammed packed full of natural chemicals and if you can once tame it all you are on to a winner. Thirty odd years ago I lived in Hertfordshire and that is almost solid clay.
That is where my method of growing Carrots on clay comes from. However this is not helping Jane to prepare her new patch or not directly at any rate.
Scythes have a number of drawbacks apart from being a back breaking exercise. I have not used one for 30 years and now it would be too much for me to handle.
That is a young persons past time.
JB.
We cover our raised beds over winter, our soil is definitely clay heavy. We have found that our method of keeping the soil covered with plants or plastic (and not walking on it) means we can cultivate it up to two months earlier than others on our site. We also have more success over-wintering things like broad beans, autumn sets etc
There is a solid layer of clay at varying depths. I broke the handle of a fork that got stuck it it once, landed on my b*m, much to the ammusement of those observing.
There is a solid layer of clay at varying depths. I broke the handle of a fork that got stuck it it once, landed on my b*m, much to the ammusement of those observing.
-
oldherbaceous
- KG Regular
- Posts: 13864
- Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:52 pm
- Location: Beautiful Bedfordshire
- Has thanked: 283 times
- Been thanked: 316 times
Good evening Vivianne and Jonhboy.
Iv'e had a quick work out, at the very dearest it would cost about £450 to cover a 30 meter square plot of land in 1200 gauge black damp proof membrane.
I got the price out of the screw fix catalogue.
www.screwfix.com
The price for a 4mx15m roll is £28.87, you would probably get a discount for buying a larger number of rolls.
I bought a roll of this five years ago and its still in very good condition, and i do barrow over the top of it.
Kind regards Old Herbaceous.
Theres no fools like them old fools.
Iv'e had a quick work out, at the very dearest it would cost about £450 to cover a 30 meter square plot of land in 1200 gauge black damp proof membrane.
I got the price out of the screw fix catalogue.
www.screwfix.com
The price for a 4mx15m roll is £28.87, you would probably get a discount for buying a larger number of rolls.
I bought a roll of this five years ago and its still in very good condition, and i do barrow over the top of it.
Kind regards Old Herbaceous.
Theres no fools like them old fools.
well in the bid to keep us motivated we are gardening in containers this year . and already we have several very tiny lettuce seedlings and a couple cabbage seedlings, our black bag spuds seem to be doing well aswell. we also have french beans and carrots in but no signs of them yet .. I'm not to worried its only been a week LOL
On the patch the weeds have been burnt and we have a clear space . still not sure what we are going to do with it yet though . still in thinking mode.
Jane
On the patch the weeds have been burnt and we have a clear space . still not sure what we are going to do with it yet though . still in thinking mode.
Jane
Hi Jane,
I was just thinking 'How big is your largeish plot?' as this will obviously have a bearing on how you could manage it.
Do you have lots of lawn mowings? These can provide a very good mulch...although you can also use them to build up a compost pile (mix with plenty of fibre..paper,twigs, cardboard, straw)
Also would you consider ducks or chickens to help you? You could have half the area for the animals and half for veg and rotate them each year, so that the ground is kept clear of slugs, snails and other grubs and many weeds, plus you get eggs!
Do you have rabbits nearby? If so a good rabbit proof fence is needed (use the search button, Johnboy and Allan have debated the finer points of rabbit fencing before)
Hi old Herby,
I intend to get an 8 years rotation going so with each plot about 30 meters square that's a lot of money...However I've just about finish this year's rotavating (just waiting for the squashes, marrows etc to go in, and I have a bit of space for the over wintering crops) I am seriously thinking of investing in enough to cover half a plot ready for next year's expansion. Hopefully I'll only need to used it before the first year's rotavating...my partner definately does NOT like the area killed off by glysophate and the dried grass and roots gets stuck on the blades and the soil is so much drier.
Hi Johnboy,
The scythe I have is aluminium and very easy to use, once you get into the swing of it
however I have got shoulders like Charles Atlas now 
I was just thinking 'How big is your largeish plot?' as this will obviously have a bearing on how you could manage it.
Do you have lots of lawn mowings? These can provide a very good mulch...although you can also use them to build up a compost pile (mix with plenty of fibre..paper,twigs, cardboard, straw)
Also would you consider ducks or chickens to help you? You could have half the area for the animals and half for veg and rotate them each year, so that the ground is kept clear of slugs, snails and other grubs and many weeds, plus you get eggs!
Do you have rabbits nearby? If so a good rabbit proof fence is needed (use the search button, Johnboy and Allan have debated the finer points of rabbit fencing before)
Hi old Herby,
I intend to get an 8 years rotation going so with each plot about 30 meters square that's a lot of money...However I've just about finish this year's rotavating (just waiting for the squashes, marrows etc to go in, and I have a bit of space for the over wintering crops) I am seriously thinking of investing in enough to cover half a plot ready for next year's expansion. Hopefully I'll only need to used it before the first year's rotavating...my partner definately does NOT like the area killed off by glysophate and the dried grass and roots gets stuck on the blades and the soil is so much drier.
Hi Johnboy,
The scythe I have is aluminium and very easy to use, once you get into the swing of it
however I have got shoulders like Charles Atlas now I don't suffer from insanity .... I enjoy it!
Vivianne
Vivianne
-
Mac McDonald- O.R.G.
- KG Regular
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:05 pm
- Location: Near Yosemite National Park, California
Hi Jane,
Each year as we did the first year, we mow our garden spot with a regular weed mower (big wheels in the back). The area is then watered and once every week or two, we rototill the space and put the chickens out in it. They mine the space for bugs, grubs, and weeds & their seeds. After a couple of months of this, we lock up the chickens & plant. By doing it that way, we have very few pests or weeds. The garden is also planted so that almost all weeding that is needed can be done with our small tiller. Once the garden is well established we let the chickens back out on occation to look for bugs and their favorite treat, snails.
Mac/O.R.G.
Each year as we did the first year, we mow our garden spot with a regular weed mower (big wheels in the back). The area is then watered and once every week or two, we rototill the space and put the chickens out in it. They mine the space for bugs, grubs, and weeds & their seeds. After a couple of months of this, we lock up the chickens & plant. By doing it that way, we have very few pests or weeds. The garden is also planted so that almost all weeding that is needed can be done with our small tiller. Once the garden is well established we let the chickens back out on occation to look for bugs and their favorite treat, snails.
Mac/O.R.G.