Glyphosate concern.

[Ricard with an H]

I'm a regular glyphosate user, it started for the control of ragwort which is rampant around here. Some land is so badly overrun it looks as if they're farming the stuff, this of-course means we get wind-blown seed. I also use glyphosate to control invasive grasses and other green growth where i'm trying to reinstate the wildflower population.

If you've never been affected by ragwort don't-ever risk it and believe what you can read. It's horrible, don't even touch the stuff unless you're wearing gloves.

Back to the glyphosate, i've been using this very convenient killer of anything green for 12 years and happy in the knowledge that once it hits the soil or is washed away it becomes inert. Now i'm finding stuff on the internet that concerns me about it's use effecting the integrity of soil organisms.

OK, most of the concern relates to widespread agricultural use around the world but it still means my soil organisms will be effected.

I buy five litres which lasts me 2/3 years, I buy it from the farmers Co-op and they ask for a holding number yet glyphosate is freely available in various guises at garden centres, or is it. I rarely go to garden centres and the one I do go to doesn't sell glyphosate, hmmmm...... our garden centre doesn't sell a lot of stuff that internet garden centres sell so presumably it's just that they don't have enough turnover.

Do you people use glyphosate and are you happy about it's use ?

[peter]

All my local garden centres and DIY sheds sell it, you need reading glasses to find it as it is an ingredient rather than a sales or brand name.

Like everything in this world that offers a benefit it has a downside.

Judicious targeted use as needed instead of hosing it around on everything minimises that. I am trying to eradicate Bindweed on my two allotment plots with reasonable success, just need better eyesight to ensure I don't miss a tendril or three each year in the raspberries

Did you know farmers use it to "ripen" wheat? If its a bit green near harvest time they spray to "hasten senescence".

I was under the impression that ragwort is a notifiable weed, that an infestation of it could lead to DEFRA forcing a farmer to eradicate it. Certainly poisonous to livestock.

[Colin Miles]

Richard - are you sure that it is all Ragwort? There are look-alike plants as well as some like Marsh Ragwort. See http://www.buglife.org.uk/conservation/campaigns/Ragwort/Ragwort+-+about+the+plant

[Ricard with an H]

I was under the impression that ragwort is a notifiable weed, that an infestation of it could lead to DEFRA forcing a farmer to eradicate it. Certainly poisonous to livestock.

Yes-precisely. No one seems to be bothered about it this far west, probably because there are very few equestrian holdings. Same with knotweed. Up the lane from where I live there has been a knotweed plantation as long as i've lived here, even though it's been 'hit' by glyphosate twice it's still coming back.

Ragwort isn't poisonous or isn't eaten by cattle or sheep, I don't know the detail but we do have cattle and sheep wandering around grazing where ragwort grows abundantly.

Colin. Hi.
I'm very sure this is common ragwort, my first experience was after hitting it with a brush-cutter. I broke out in weeping scabs and had flue-symptoms for ten days. Right now ragwort is growing along the banks of our paddock and it even survives the domestic lawn cutting procedures, if I can catch it in the spring with lots of green growth it's generally under control not counting for the odd-survivor lurking amongst bramble or gorse that I didn't see. If I let just one plant go to seed the following year gets me a plantation.

[FelixLeiter]

Glyphosate's been around for long enough that if there's anything that we need to be particularly wary of, I think we'd be aware of it by now. is how I see it. I still use it where appropriate. It can tend to get over-used, a big hammer for usually rather small nuts — for instance, for treating annual weeds. And for treating stumps, for which it is useless. It is too often applied too strongly: it is extremely potent, and the recommended dilution rates can come as a surprise to many. It gets ladled on thick, despite the legislation and in spite of its price.

Ragwort is not dangerous to livestock, though, only horses. It is a biennial, forming a rosette of leaves its first year, increasing in size and flowering the next. It is soon that it needs to be treated, before growth is in full spate, for maximum impact. It is a native plant, supporting its own particular ecology of invertebrates (Cinnabar Moth, for one) and yet it is commonly perceived to be an invading alien.

[Ricard with an H]

, and the recommended dilution rates can come as a surprise to many.

To be perfectly honest this may apply to me, I have never bought it in domestic quantity so the maths were difficult for me. I did do some calculations but based on hactare and I tend to do a mix strong enough to knock bramble out because I do have a lot of bramble. I'm using 200ml into about 10litres of water, it's a guess because I roughly over-half fill a 16 litre back-pack sprayer.

How is this looking Felix ?

Ragwort is not dangerous to livestock, though, only horses. It is a biennial, forming a rosette of leaves its first year, increasing in size and flowering the next. It is soon that it needs to be treated, before growth is in full spate, for maximum impact. It is a native plant, supporting its own particular ecology of invertebrates (Cinnabar Moth, for one) and yet it is commonly perceived to be an invading alien.

When I questioned a local farmer about the amount he had in his field he thought it was a very attractive plant and good for wildlife, I suppose his view carries weight with some people, but not with others.

I regularly have children and adults on my paddock who wouldn't be aware of the danger and after that episode I had with it i've declared war. It's easy to pull up, it has very shallow roots. But you must wear gloves.

I just did a tour of my entrance drive and parking area, the drive and parking is on consolidated and graded scalpings. No soil but the ragwort has rooted in a few places just like Felix describes and it lays so flat in it's first year you'll only notice it out in the open.

[farmer jon]

Hi all, I use glyphosate regularly & I am not the slightest bit worried about doing so.my 3 allotments are sprayed in early sept where any vacant land occurs,this kills everything such as scutch,docks,dandies etc & come november the dead top growth can be just raked off ready for digging.
I have noticed that the organic brigade are digging for any dirt they can find about glyphosate in the hope that they can get it banned. hopefully common sense will prevail & it will remain as an extremely useful weedkiller.

[Monika]

I use glyphosate occasionally but never on areas where I am going to grow vegetables. Our allotment is surrounded by dry stone walls where rabbits can dig underneath, scramble over or squeeze through, so we have put in a wire netting fence about two feet in from the walls, and it is this strip (a kind of 'cordon sanitaire') which we keep free of vegetation with glyphosate. Somehow, the assurance that glyphosate becomes inert once it hits the soil still doesn't sound too assuring to me!

Re ragwort: as the warden of our local nature reserve, I keep an eye open for any rogue plants invading it and I wait until they are nearly flowering, then pull them up (with gloves, obviously), because letting them flower and seed, would mean thousands more seedlings the following year. A stitch in time .......

[Ricard with an H]

I have noticed that the organic brigade are digging for any dirt they can find about glyphosate in the hope that they can get it banned. hopefully common sense will prevail & it will remain as an extremely useful weedkiller.

Hmmmmm..........Thats the first thing I thought Jon and to be honest I would be lost without glyphosate even though I don't use it to the extent you do I did spray the grassy ground on which my raised beds sit.

Somehow, the assurance that glyphosate becomes inert once it hits the soil still doesn't sound too assuring to me!

It's because of my learned cynicism that I went searching the internet and found what I found though I can't help thinking about the local group we have campaining against wind-turbines, these people are anti-anything. They send planning objections to the local authority for applications that have little or no visual impact on their amenity, they send objections in for applicants wanting ground-erected solar arrays and all without consideration or a voice for an alternative at a time coal is disappearing, gas is expensive and also disappearing with nuclear being uncomfortable.

Sorry for the digress, I just had to share that thought.

So, all-in-all i'm in good company. I'm suspicious of the anti-brigade and concerned about widespread use so I use glyphosate judiciously though maybe I shouldn't have sprayed the grass under my raised beds.

Our local fields are/have been regularly hit with glyphosate prior to the plow and it worried me that my dog runs over this ground, thats what started it all off.

[Tony Hague]

Glyphosate is very widely used, and to clear weeds from senescent crops before harvest, so it can't be too harmful, I guess. As I understand it the biggest hazards are respiratory when applying due to the surfactants added. Also, although it degrades in contact with soil, it does not degrade so easily when it doesn't come into contact with soil, e.g when used on pavements, railway tracks, etc, where it can be washed off directly into watercourses.

Another little known feature is that it can allegedly migrate between plants via the roots.

In some recent work we did, we tried a wide range of dilutions of Roundup Biactive, it proved effective over a surprisingly wide range of dilutions. I think we used 50:1 down to 400:1 or even more dilute. Mind you, if you have to use the stuff from the garden centre, it has already been diluted to homeopathic levels

[Ricard with an H]

Mind you, if you have to use the stuff from the garden centre, it has already been diluted to homeopathic levels

I'm not using 'store-bought'. Mine is a Rosate 36, the name seems irrelevant because the names change all the time.

Seems my dilution is about right though I do know it could be greater for green stuff. One of the websites advocates 300ml to 10 litres, for my uses that is quite a strong mix and will knock-out bramble if you have plenty of green on the canes.

Tony, Any ideas how dilute I could go for controlling couch, ragwort, dock and other random green stuff ?

[FelixLeiter]

How is this looking Felix ?

It depends on how your sprayer is calibrated, the rate at which your sprayer applies, which is a combination of nozzle aperture and type, pressurisation and so on. Calculating based on how much concentrate gets applied per hectare is exactly the right approach, so I would say you are pretty hear the mark.

[Ricard with an H]

so I would say you are pretty hear the mark.

I have just done the early spring circuit of my paddock's banks with a little more confidence, the odd squirt here and there on well established couch and emerging dock though I didn't spot any ragwort or knotweed, not-yet.

The plant that is known as, "White-mans-footprint" is everywhere, selective herbicide only curls the leaves a little so I end up leaving holes in the grass after giving it some glyphosate. Plantain looks quite attractive left to grow in bunches in certain places and insects do like it but it spreads like fire onto the lawns yet I have never had it on my raised beds, not yet.

[yummyveggies]

applied glyphosate under vines on Feb 18th ( a nice sunny day ) at 200ml per 10l and it has been very successful ... that is the recommended minimum application rate - and worked really well.... couch , creeping buttercup, dandelion, and dock ... all dead !! Took about 6 weeks to take effect... but worked a treat. The vines were well and truly dormant so no chance of catching buds on the trunk.

[Ricard with an H]

applied glyphosate under vines on Feb 18th ( a nice sunny day ) at 200ml per 10l and it has been very successful ...

I found that even that amount of glyphosate will know-out bramble if they have plenty of leaf.

I don't know how I would manage without this stuff, some of the grasses I have form mounds and have bulbs in the soil rather than roots, then there is nettle. I love nettle and use it but it takes over if you allow it. We have Japanese knotweed that pops up and all-sorts of other plants I don't know the name of that become invasive.

Invasive ?

I read somewhere recently that I have to stop being tidy, let things get messy and nature is at it's happiest but wild flowers don't grow when other plants invade so glyphosate is my tool of choice to allow chosen things to grow. It sounds horrible doesn't it, like playing god.

I also have a selective herbicide that works on most things growing amongst the grasses on my domestic grass. Since joining this forum i've learnt I had to remember to not compost the material that has been treated though my composting cycle is easily over 12 months for each batch. Wont this be enough to negate the effects of the selective herbicide ?

I don't remember what it's called now and the label has fallen of, does it matter ? They change the names of the same chemicals on a regular basis for whatever reason.

The only other choice I have, and it does work, is to spray through a plastic pot without a bottom so you control any over-spray. At worst you get brown patches and my lovely little spaniel does that all the time.

We also use glyphosate on tree roots to stop the suckers, drill a hole into the stump and pour neat glyphosate into the hole. This also works on stuff like rhodedendrums if you don't have the energy to pull the roots.