Bread maker

[Elle's Garden]

Thanks JohnN - just looks upside down to my instructions then! My question was more because I thought if the yeast was mixed through the flour then some of it would probably come into contact with the liquid and my instructions seemed to indicate the whole thing would blow up (not quite) if that happened. But it works for you, and I had a tasty loaf which had the whole family seal of approval last night! Second loaf is nearly ready now.

[glallotments]

We don't mix up our dry ingredients, yeast in first, then flour, then salt sugar and liquid in that order then the machine does the rest. It's quite specific about the order that ingredients go in.

[Elle's Garden]

I can now report 3 very tasty loaves, 2 basic and one French - I have to say I followed all instructions to the letter, including the suggestion for 10 mins in the oven, and the crust was just superb. No more Kingsmill for us!! Thank you all for your suggestions and help.

[Elle's Garden]

OK, now the failure . I have successfully made granary, lots of basic whites and french white bread this week, all of which have worked well. This afternoon I made another basic white and it has come out half size and much darker. I haven't actually cut it yet to see what is happening inside. The only thing that was different that I can think of, was a change from Hovis dried yeast in sachets, to a can of dried yeast, also Hovis I think. Do other people use the tin of dried yeast or has anyone ever noticed a difference between the two? I was really careful with all the measurements because I know that if I deviate it will go pear shaped!

[John]

Hello Elle
I think that you have put your finger on the problem - its the yeast.
These different dried yeasts can be very confusing. I suspect the dried yeast in the tin is one that has to be activated with water and sugar for about 20 mins before use. They don't work well in a bread machine.
You need something called active or quick yeast where the instructions definitely say that it is suitable for use in bread machines. By far the best I think (and the cheapest) is the Doves Quick yeast - its about £1-20 for a 125g packet and this lasts ages. Its widely available.
An interesting thing about these types of yeast is that they do not need sugar in the mixture to work. Sugar is included in the machine recipes to give a slight sweetness to the loaf , a more moist bake and a browner loaf - also its supposed to improve its keeping quality. Its the one ingredient that you can safely change or leave out. I rarely use it as we prefer the type of loaf you get without using it. I put the loaf straight from the machine into a hot oven (Gas mk6) for about 6-10 min to give it a good dark crust instead of relying on sugar to do the job.

John

[Elle's Garden]

Hi John,

You are spot on - when I looked later, more closely, at the tin it quite clearly says "not suitable for breadmakers" That is one disadvantage of doing grocery shopping online, the pictures of products are not always clear enough to read. I have returned to the sachets for breadmakers and all is now well. I havn't seen the Dove packet you mention, but I will look out for it.

I have tried your oven finishing process, and rather like it, so often use that as well

Thanks once again for your knowledge and help,
Elle

[Elle's Garden]

Back for more thoughts.

I have tried the hovis dried yeast and then the Sainsburys stuff and there doesn't seem a noticable difference in the loaves, so happy to go with Sangers there and save a few pence. Tried the Sainsburys strong white flour today instead of the Hovis I have been buying, to see if any more pennies can be saved, but I am very unhappy with the loaf. It is noticably smaller, and has an uneven surface texture, as though it tore as it was rising. I will probably give it another go - can't waste the flour, but it would seem it is not up to the job. I must admit I haven't cut or tasted yet. I wonder if anyone else has found this too with own brand flour?

[macmac]

Well how strange a friend fromm the lottie called in for coffee this morning and we were discussing breadmaking in our machines,I said how unhappy I'd been of late with results.Reading this post prompted me to check my yeast and it is the one described UNsuitable for machines
I used to buy Doves from Lakeland but I'll have a look whats on offer when I do a shop.
Thanks for the information everyone

[John]

Hello Elle
Yes, as you have found flours can differ quite a bit from each other. Same label flour can even differ from year to year. Some of the most reliable white ones that I've found are Doves, Carrs and the Coop's own brand. Some local brands can also be good - here its Matthews. If there is a choice of flours, read the small print and choose the one with the highest protein content.
The white flour I use is one of these but I get brown and wholemeal flour from Shipton Mill, which is quite local to here but I buy online. Their flour is really superb and they have a very wide range of different sorts - highly recommended and well worth the extra cost.

http://www.shipton-mill.com/

Sometimes it can just be a matter of altering the amount of water slightly.
You could try improving your flour by including 1/4 teaspoon of vitamin C powder to your mixture. Although this is usually only needed in wholemeal mixtures it will rescue poor quality white flour. I use Power Health vitamin C powder which is sold as a drink mix. Doves also do a vitamin C powder (cheaper) but this is no so easy to get hold of. Neither is cheap but it lasts a long time at 1/4 tsp a throw. In fact Doves white bread flour has vit C already added.

Did you ever get Doves Quick yeast? Health food places usually have all these bread making extras.

Happy baking

John

[Elle's Garden]

Thanks John, really informative as always. I haven't got Doves in a tub yet because I work from home, and generally do most of my shopping online. My exception is a trip to our local veg shop about 4 miles away. He does stock some locally milled flours but at £2.75 or something for 1.5 kg, I am saving that idea for emergancies! What you say about different flours reminds me that I had the same problem with ordinary plain flour (also Sainsburys) when I started making pastry last year. I found I needed a touch more water than recipies called for (Delia explained that to me in her great book ).

Weirdly, the Sainsburys flour has 13.4g of protein and the Hovis shows 12.2g I wonder then if it is the liquid? The loaf once cut seemed quite 'tight'. I wonder if an extra 10ml of water would help? I will try that tomorrow. I need to get stocked up with all these bits and bobs like the Vitamin C. We have a good health store locally, it is just a case of getting there. I hate makeing special journeys for just one thing I prefer to combine my errands!

Thanks again for your advice, certainly we are really happy with our decision to get a breadmaker, and the house has lovely smells everyday

[John]

Hello Elle
A 13.4% protein figure for a white bread flour is very good - they don't come much higher than that. As you say a little more water should do the trick. I mainly make the 500g flour loaves and for this 10ml extra water would be fine.
An interesting thing I've noticed is that if the water content is too much the crust is thinner and has a cracked appearance but the loaf is fine.

John

PS I'm also a big Delia fan as well.

[The Mouse]

Just a quick word on vitamin C: when I was still using my bread machine to make my bread, I just used to crush up half a vitamin C tablet. It did the job as well as powder, and it didn't seem to matter what quantity I used - I got the same results whether I used a quarter of a tablet or a whole one!

[macmac]

Thankyou for the information about yeast ,lovely loaf at last.
p.s. I add a splash of lemon juice to add vitimin c and always use some olive oil

[Elle's Garden]

Can any one help again (John?). When I first started making the bread I tried the ciabatta recipie and got some lovely loaves. Well risen, soft crust and beautiful texture. That was with Hovis bread flour and hovis yeast and olive oil. I moved on to Sainsbury's yeast and flour and had the problems with the moisture (detailed above). I have also tried Doves farm yeast. My findings now are that I can make a granary loaf with the Doves farm yeast and it is fine. It will also make a reasonable white loaf with Hovis flour - not with the sainsbury's. However, if I use Doves farm yeast with hovis flour in the ciabatta loaf it doesn't rise - it is square shaped! So, I have gone back to using Sainsbury's yeast for ciabatta and it is okay, but not the same beautiful risen loaf with soft crust of when I first started. For a while I thought it may have been a dodgy bottle of olive oil as it was a bit cloudy (cold). But a new bottle and warmer storage elimanated that part of the equation. The only way to really find out for sure will be to go back to hovis yeast again (which I will try), but I wondered if there could be any reason for the Doves yeast not raising the ciabatta whilst working fine on the granary?

[Tony Hague]

I've used a variety of yeasts (including Hovis and Dove's farm) with no noticeable difference. Just be sure it is an easy-blend type yeast (finely divided particles) not the standard dried yeast (little beads), the latter needs re-hydrating to work properly. The easy blend yeasts I've had have all come in either small (expensive and overpackaged) sachets or a vacuum packed; the ones in tins or tubs seem to be not easy blend types.

Flour makes quite a lot of difference; particularly to the Italian settings. Sometimes very rustic wholewheat flours produce a brick too. Home grown/ground Amaranth grain made a brick too...